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Argentine citizenship for foreigners?


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#1
steveinbsas

steveinbsas
In the past two days there have been several posts about the possibility of applying for citizenship in Argentina as an alternative to applying for  temporary or permanent residency.  I have been a member of this forum for four years and don't recall anyone posting that they had actually applied for or received Argentine citizenship.  

I do remember that one of the attorneys wrote that citizenship required two years of permanent residency, but that's all.  A  post in the past day or two made reference to a constitutional provision that anyone who has lived in Argentina  for two years may apply for citizenship, regardless of their status with Argentine migraciones.

The constitution has already been quoted.  Now I'd like to know if anyone out there has applied for Argentine citizenship.  What was required? What was the procedure?  What was the result? I am not asking the lawyers and I am not asking about those who applied as the spouse or parent of an Argentine, just those who applied as a foreigner living in Argentina.  I'm sure many others would like to know about your personal experience with the process.

#2
gunt86

gunt86
While I have not yet applied for citizenship, I have done as much research on the topic as i can. I do not agree that a tourist can successfully petition for citizenship, but I may be wrong. Anyways, it is important to see what the government itself considers requirements for citizenship.  Those requirements are located here: http://www.argentina...dhtml?pagina=80

Here is the text:

Requisitos para Obtener la Ciudadanía Argentina
                                              Requisitos:
   • Ser mayor de dieciocho años.
   • Tener dos años de residencia ininterrumpida  y documentada en el país, certificada por la Dirección Nacional de Migraciones.  

Documentación Exigida:
   • Partida de nacimiento legalizada por el consulado argentino en el país de origen.
   • Fotocopia de D.N.I., cédula, pasaporte.
   • Certificado de domicilio original.
   • Justificación de medios de vida: contrato de trabajo, certificado  de trabajo actual o recibo de sueldo. En caso de ser autónomo,   fotocopia de comprobante de aportes.
   • Si tiene hijos argentinos, acompañar fotocopia de las partidas de nacimiento y certificado de Migraciones.                

I want to point out the exact phrase used is "two years of uninterrupted residence and documented in the country, and certified by Migraciones".   It says nothing about physical presence. So how does one get two years of uninterrupted residence and documented in the country, and certified by Migraciones?  Only with valid PERMANENT RESIDENCE status, not a tourist visa. It is impossible to be a RESIDENT of Argentina if you are a tourist of Argentina or if you are in Argentina on a temporary visa. All forms of temporary entry are just that, temporary; they confer no display of residence. You cannot temporarily be in a place and be a resident of that place at the same time.  Furthermore, even a one year temporary rentista visa which you renew each year will not meet the requirement as it is not uninterrupted ! Each time you renew the visa is an interruption.

Is it possible to sue the government for citizenship because the national constitution is a little vague on the requirements (as opposed to the government as quoted above)? Yes it is possible. Will you win?  Perhaps, or perhaps not. It's a very large gamble to take.  And I would spend a lot of time and money talking to excellent immigration lawyers before I even would begin such a project. Much easier to just make yourself fit the existing government accepted requirements.

Anyways, there is the government's own words. I think it is better than we spend more time trying to fit into the round holes the government has provided for us, rather than trying to jam our square pegs into a wall to create new square holes. I can assure you that while it will be a great intellectual experience for a lawyer to try suing the government for a client, it is not in the least bit a fun experience to go through if you are the client in question.

#3
jaredwb

jaredwb

steveinbsas said:

In the past two days there have been several posts about the possibility of applying for citizenship in Argentina as an alternative to applying for  temporary or permanent residency.  I have been a member of this forum for four years and don't recall anyone posting that they had actually applied for or received Argentine citizenship.  

I do remember that one of the attorneys wrote that citizenship required two years of permanent residency, but that's all.  A  post in the past day or two made reference to a constitutional provision that anyone who has lived in Argentina  for two years may apply for citizenship, regardless of their status with Argentine migraciones.

The constitution has already been quoted.  Now I'd like to know if anyone out there has applied for Argentine citizenship.  What was required? What was the procedure?  What was the result? I am not asking the lawyers and I am not asking about those who applied as the spouse or parent of an Argentine, just those who applied as a foreigner living in Argentina.  I'm sure many others would like to know about your personal experience with the process.


I guess my question would be, why in the world would you want to be a citizen of Argentina?

#4
steveinbsas

steveinbsas

gunt86 said:

I want to point out the exact phrase used is "two years of uninterrupted residence and documented in the country, and certified by Migraciones".   It says nothing about physical presence. So how does one get two years of uninterrupted residence and documented in the country, and certified by Migraciones?  Only with valid PERMANENT RESIDENCE status, not a tourist visa.

When you point out the exact phrase translated into English it may not have the exact same meaning as it does in castellano.  As previously noted, permanent residency only requires the individual to be physically in Argentina one day in two years.  I've been told by several "opinionated sources" that individuals who have actually been on Argentine soil for two years without leaving the country meet this "residency" requirement, even if they don't have legal resident status.  

If it is necessary to have migraciones certify this, surely it can be done by computer/passport records.  Even though it may be possible for someone to enter and exit the country without migraciones knowledge, I believe their records would be sufficient proof.  Perma-tourists who leave the country every 90 days (or even once in two years) might not meet this requirement.

gunt86 said:

It is impossible to be a RESIDENT of Argentina if you are a tourist of Argentina or if you are in Argentina on a temporary visa. All forms of temporary enter are just that temporary, they confer no display of residence. You cannot temporarily be in a place and be a resident of that place at the same time.

Then why does the visa rentista confer residencia temporaria and require the individual to get a DNI?  Why did migraciones give me a certificado de cambio de categoria to residencia permanente on the third renewal of  my visa (which I no longer have if I understand correctly) and the the registro simply note the cambio de categoria de ingresso in my DNI?

Tourists actually have residencia transitoria.  It is a category of residency.

All applicants for citizenship have to appear before a judge and demonstrate that they can read and understand castellano as well as financial stability, don't they?  Are those conditions actually in the constitution?

#5
steveinbsas

steveinbsas

jaredwb said:

I guess my question would be, why in the world would you want to be a citizen of Argentina?

So we don't have to continue paying lawyers like the one you shill for to stay here legally.

#6
steveinbsas

steveinbsas

gunt86 said:

Furthermore, even a one year temporary rentista visa which you renew each year will not meet the requirement as it is not uninterrupted ! Each time you renew the visa is an interruption.

Really?????

#7
gunt86

gunt86

steveinbsas said:

Really????
I have provided for you what i know about the subject based upon numerous conversation with immigration lawyers in Argentina. None of what i have stated is based on hearsay or wild speculation on my part. I am done with providing information on this topic to this forum. It is abundantly clear to me that numerous misunderstanding have arisen on this topic primarily because of a lack of attention to terms. The words, 'resident', 'residency', 'continuous', and others are being treated with much different meanings by each participant in this discussion. Hence the confusion. You can take what i have provided (which i have also paid for by the way) and use it or you can go your own route. It is impossible to have any sort of meaningful discussion when the terms are not agreed upon - see Wittgenstein for more.

I don't think you have any idea what the ARG constitution "two years residency" concept means in terms of the practical reality of getting citizenship. Yes, according to the constitution only two years of residency are needed: where "residency" is left undefined. So of course a person can sue for citizenship by claiming that two years of physical presence meets the 'requirements' of the constitution.  BUT, will you win?  Maybe. There have been some successful cases in the past. But that does not mean your case will be successful. You may have to go all the way to the Supreme Court, and even then you might lose!  Why would anyone do this except in the most desperate circumstances? As i said, if you want to try to sue the government based on what you think the constitution should be interpreted as, then please go ahead. I am not interested in such a gamble or difficult project, when it is much easier to follow the clear and simple path the government has provided towards citizenship.

It is absolutely ridiculous that Steve is even talking about suing the gvmt to get citizenship...this is the same person who refuses to pay for any legal advice and uses any opportunity to pump any lawyer for free legal advice. No amount of free legal advice is going to help you Steve, it actually costs a lot of money to sue the government.

#8
steveinbsas

steveinbsas

gunt86 said:

I am done with providing information on this topic to this forum.

Promise????

#9
gunt86

gunt86

steveinbsas said:

Promise????
if you want me to hijack your thread with nonsense, troll...keep up the disrespect.

#10
laureltp

laureltp
steveninba, I have a question. I heard that if you get citizenship of another country and you are from the US that if the US finds out you have another citizenship they may revoke your US citizenship. Is that true or some kind of rumor, do you know?




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