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Premarital Sex In Argentina


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#11
Rich One

Rich One
  • LocationRecoleta
You said it Sos un Pelotudo... :rolleyes:
Life is too Short

#12
Awesome Possum

Awesome Possum
  • LocationBuenos Aires

superbueno, on 18 March 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

I live with an argentinian woman. Before we have been dating for 2 years already.
We never kissed bcs she rejects me. She said she wants to have first time sex on our wedding night.
I support her financially 100%. She does not want to go to work. She does not want to do any houseworks and does not cook for me.
I have to to do all by myself. She wants to eat only in restaurants, do shopping and rides only by taxis.
I have spent on her all my savings ca. 50 000 USD. She took away my phone and my credit card.
Almost all nights she does not sleep at home. She tells she was with her friends.
Usually a sportscar picks her up. We should be a couple. She tells I am her future husband.
We have the age difference. She is 27 and I am 46. Does she really love me or is it a scam?
Is this situation normal in Argentina? People wait with sex until they are married? I am from western culture and this is
weird to me. And her behavior? I think a girlfriend should stay at home at nights and help a bit with houseworks.
Do I am paranoid?
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#13
MorganF

MorganF
So!

Any thread with "Sex" in the title makes me click on it and want to respond :)

The original poster's question brings up two very important questions, questions with get to the essence of our humanity, of why we exist, namely:

1 - Why do we ask for advice (on a non-trivial issue)?
2 - Why do we give advice, when asked?

To state the blindingly obvious: we don't ask for advice because we're trying to get to the truth or figure out what to do. Take, as an example, Superbueno's original question: every single responder knows the answer. *He* himself knows the answer, although he may not want to admit it to himself because it will be painful.

Here's why I think we ask for advice: because, we actually know the answer, but we're not prepared to admit it to ourselves. As a result, we're asking for advice merely to gain that glimmer of hope that what we know is wrong.

When was the last time you someone asked for advice (on a non-trivial issue; I'm not talking about "do you know a good plumber?", but rather, say, "should I get divorced?") and the advice-seeker actually listened to your advice and changed his/her/its course of action: I'd posit an answer: never. Or almost never. Or "oh, this one time, seven years ago..."

Superbueno posted this question because, he really really really wants people to say, "yes, this is how it is done here in Argentina" to soothe his doubts. That's what he wants to hear and is why he asked.

What's great about this thread (other than the title!) is: he asked the same question a year ago and, as @ben pointed out, the response was 100% unanimous. yet... here we are... one year later... and nothing has changed. In fact, something has changed: they moved in together. Despite the advice of we anonymous random people of the Interwebs, he did the opposite of our implicit advice and he moved in with her! Perhaps, he will respond to the advice in this thread by... proposing marriage?

The second question is also interesting: why do we feel compelled to give advice? I'd respond by saying this: advice-giving is never or almost never about the recipient, but about the advice-giver. We give advice to justify our own past decisions and our choices, not to actually try to improve the other. There are occasional exceptions, of course. And subconsciously, of course: consciously, we all think we actually do have the best interest of random-stranger-we-don't-know-from-the-interwebs on our mind.

I realized this when I was 18, graduated high school, and before I went to college, my parents had a big party for the family, to celebrate my graduation. Some distant, distant relative-by-marriage -- a man who is the biggest loser in life I had ever met by that point; he is a failure as a human being, by any definition of the word "failure" -- started giving me advice about what I should and shouldn't do, advice along the lines of, "follow your heart." And I explicitly remember thinking to myself, "Why would I want to follow YOUR advice? There's no way I would want to end up like you!". His advice to me wasn't given because he had inquired as to my objectives and strategized the best way for me to go about achieving them, and was sincerely trying to help me in my quest. No, no, no. He has some ideas about how to live; those ideas, applied to himself, resulted in his own disaster of a life; and, in encouraging me to make choices similar to his: obviously he can't be that much of a loser because awesome people like me are doing the same things he's doing :) That's not happening consciously in his mind; consciously, he thinks, "This is the right thing to do, let me tell him so it helps him!".

This realization is the reason why, many years ago, I decided to just never give advice (except when asked insistently, so I know it's for real). I resolved to never be like this loser-second-uncle, and merely giving advice makes the listener evaluate my life and whether he wants to turn out like me and I don't want to be in that situation. Instead, here's what I do, when asked: I try to help them figure out *how* to answer the question. Or I try to help them get to the deeper underlying issue (there always is one). For example, had superbueno been a good friend of mine, taken me for a beer, and told me his sob story, here's one possibility of what I might have told him: "okay, lets brainstorm, how you can go about figuring out whether she truly loves you or not." For example, maybe you should tell her you lost all your money, and see how she responds?

One of the interesting implications of my approach to answering this (how do you go about figuring out what you should do, to solve the dilemma you're currently faced with?) is this: there are different methodologies to go about doing so, and they may yield different answers! He who defines the methodology defines the answer. One of my preferred methodologies is to appeal to the wisdom of our ancestors. There are various rules of thumb that have been known for thousands of years: the woman who lives with you, to whom you are betrothed, who goes out alone every single night, being picked up in a sports car, and never sleeps at home.... a few thousand years ago, that woman would have been called a few words that are too dirty for a nice, simple, naive boy like me to use. (Another piece of wisdom from our ancestors is the ancient cliche, "if you don't know who the sucker is... it's you" -- a cliche which, if applied here, also yields the same conclusion). That would be the answer. Another preferred method of mine is the scientific method, which revolves around doing experiments and seeing how different experiments yield different results. See the earlier suggestion about telling her you're now a penniless bum.

But the story gets more interesting. There are details that just don't make sense -- and thus imply a much richer story than just the "I'm good and naive, and she's bad and taking advantage of me" picture that it seems to be at first glance.

- She demands he spend his $50k life savings on her, takes away his credit card and phone and yet... he's attracted to her. Most people, I would proffer, would be TURNED OFF by such behavior. I would have dumped that person MERELY for that behavior! But he's turned on by it. Why???? Maybe it could be that superbueno -- really just an anonymous random person online whom we don't know -- deserves this woman he got. Maybe he's just a sketchy guy, attracted to sketchy girls. Maybe he's getting what he deserved. In my experience, "like attracts like" more often than not.

- George Orwell has a great observation (well, many!) and one of them is: "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." It's shockingly hard to see what is blindingly obvious. *To us*, on the outside of superbueno's situation, what this girl is doing is blindingly obvious; but on the inside, it's not. This applies to everything in the universe. Take, politics: what is blindingly obvious to the entire world is just really really really difficult for, say, the committed partisan to see. I'll say it differently: what important point about your life are you (like superbueno in his dilemma) just not seeing, and not realizing, even though it is blindingly obvious to your friends, colleagues, family, and everyone around you? That is a hard, a very very hard question for any of us to answer honestly. It's a hard question to even ask with an open mind. In this way, I'm sympathetic to superbueno. There's probably some massive strategic mistake I'm making in my life, that everyone else realizes but isn't telling me (or, more likely, they are telling me, but I'm not hearing it), that will blow up for me just as much as superbueno's situation will blow up for him. I'm sure of it, actually.

Anyhow... more important matters at hand: dinner-time.

morgan

#14
RodolfoWalsh

RodolfoWalsh
I just want to know if the op managed to get his Ferrari down here yet.

#15
wineguy999

wineguy999
  • LocationBay Area CA & BAires, mainly

RodolfoWalsh, on 19 March 2017 - 12:51 AM, said:

I just want to know if the op managed to get his Ferrari down here yet.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
“Champagne! In victory one deserves it, in defeat one needs it.” - Napoleon Bonaparte

#16
Rich One

Rich One
  • LocationRecoleta

MorganF, on 18 March 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

So!

Any thread with "Sex" in the title makes me click on it and want to respond :)

The original poster's question brings up two very important questions, questions with get to the essence of our humanity, of why we exist, namely:

1 - Why do we ask for advice (on a non-trivial issue)?
2 - Why do we give advice, when asked?

To state the blindingly obvious: we don't ask for advice because we're trying to get to the truth or figure out what to do. Take, as an example, Superbueno's original question: every single responder knows the answer. *He* himself knows the answer, although he may not want to admit it to himself because it will be painful.

Here's why I think we ask for advice: because, we actually know the answer, but we're not prepared to admit it to ourselves. As a result, we're asking for advice merely to gain that glimmer of hope that what we know is wrong.

When was the last time you someone asked for advice (on a non-trivial issue; I'm not talking about "do you know a good plumber?", but rather, say, "should I get divorced?") and the advice-seeker actually listened to your advice and changed his/her/its course of action: I'd posit an answer: never. Or almost never. Or "oh, this one time, seven years ago..."

Superbueno posted this question because, he really really really wants people to say, "yes, this is how it is done here in Argentina" to soothe his doubts. That's what he wants to hear and is why he asked.

What's great about this thread (other than the title!) is: he asked the same question a year ago and, as @ben pointed out, the response was 100% unanimous. yet... here we are... one year later... and nothing has changed. In fact, something has changed: they moved in together. Despite the advice of we anonymous random people of the Interwebs, he did the opposite of our implicit advice and he moved in with her! Perhaps, he will respond to the advice in this thread by... proposing marriage?

The second question is also interesting: why do we feel compelled to give advice? I'd respond by saying this: advice-giving is never or almost never about the recipient, but about the advice-giver. We give advice to justify our own past decisions and our choices, not to actually try to improve the other. There are occasional exceptions, of course. And subconsciously, of course: consciously, we all think we actually do have the best interest of random-stranger-we-don't-know-from-the-interwebs on our mind.

I realized this when I was 18, graduated high school, and before I went to college, my parents had a big party for the family, to celebrate my graduation. Some distant, distant relative-by-marriage -- a man who is the biggest loser in life I had ever met by that point; he is a failure as a human being, by any definition of the word "failure" -- started giving me advice about what I should and shouldn't do, advice along the lines of, "follow your heart." And I explicitly remember thinking to myself, "Why would I want to follow YOUR advice? There's no way I would want to end up like you!". His advice to me wasn't given because he had inquired as to my objectives and strategized the best way for me to go about achieving them, and was sincerely trying to help me in my quest. No, no, no. He has some ideas about how to live; those ideas, applied to himself, resulted in his own disaster of a life; and, in encouraging me to make choices similar to his: obviously he can't be that much of a loser because awesome people like me are doing the same things he's doing :) That's not happening consciously in his mind; consciously, he thinks, "This is the right thing to do, let me tell him so it helps him!".

This realization is the reason why, many years ago, I decided to just never give advice (except when asked insistently, so I know it's for real). I resolved to never be like this loser-second-uncle, and merely giving advice makes the listener evaluate my life and whether he wants to turn out like me and I don't want to be in that situation. Instead, here's what I do, when asked: I try to help them figure out *how* to answer the question. Or I try to help them get to the deeper underlying issue (there always is one). For example, had superbueno been a good friend of mine, taken me for a beer, and told me his sob story, here's one possibility of what I might have told him: "okay, lets brainstorm, how you can go about figuring out whether she truly loves you or not." For example, maybe you should tell her you lost all your money, and see how she responds?

One of the interesting implications of my approach to answering this (how do you go about figuring out what you should do, to solve the dilemma you're currently faced with?) is this: there are different methodologies to go about doing so, and they may yield different answers! He who defines the methodology defines the answer. One of my preferred methodologies is to appeal to the wisdom of our ancestors. There are various rules of thumb that have been known for thousands of years: the woman who lives with you, to whom you are betrothed, who goes out alone every single night, being picked up in a sports car, and never sleeps at home.... a few thousand years ago, that woman would have been called a few words that are too dirty for a nice, simple, naive boy like me to use. (Another piece of wisdom from our ancestors is the ancient cliche, "if you don't know who the sucker is... it's you" -- a cliche which, if applied here, also yields the same conclusion). That would be the answer. Another preferred method of mine is the scientific method, which revolves around doing experiments and seeing how different experiments yield different results. See the earlier suggestion about telling her you're now a penniless bum.

But the story gets more interesting. There are details that just don't make sense -- and thus imply a much richer story than just the "I'm good and naive, and she's bad and taking advantage of me" picture that it seems to be at first glance.

- She demands he spend his $50k life savings on her, takes away his credit card and phone and yet... he's attracted to her. Most people, I would proffer, would be TURNED OFF by such behavior. I would have dumped that person MERELY for that behavior! But he's turned on by it. Why???? Maybe it could be that superbueno -- really just an anonymous random person online whom we don't know -- deserves this woman he got. Maybe he's just a sketchy guy, attracted to sketchy girls. Maybe he's getting what he deserved. In my experience, "like attracts like" more often than not.

- George Orwell has a great observation (well, many!) and one of them is: "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." It's shockingly hard to see what is blindingly obvious. *To us*, on the outside of superbueno's situation, what this girl is doing is blindingly obvious; but on the inside, it's not. This applies to everything in the universe. Take, politics: what is blindingly obvious to the entire world is just really really really difficult for, say, the committed partisan to see. I'll say it differently: what important point about your life are you (like superbueno in his dilemma) just not seeing, and not realizing, even though it is blindingly obvious to your friends, colleagues, family, and everyone around you? That is a hard, a very very hard question for any of us to answer honestly. It's a hard question to even ask with an open mind. In this way, I'm sympathetic to superbueno. There's probably some massive strategic mistake I'm making in my life, that everyone else realizes but isn't telling me (or, more likely, they are telling me, but I'm not hearing it), that will blow up for me just as much as superbueno's situation will blow up for him. I'm sure of it, actually.

Anyhow... more important matters at hand: dinner-time.

morgan


Brilliant... can you post a Summary...
Life is too Short

#17
superbueno

superbueno
She likes to curse a lot, calls me names like motherfucker, idiot, pelotudo and homo! Is it latin temperament? She uploaded humiliating photos of me on FB.  She said this was a latin joke.
She used my FB account and insulted a lot of my friends as it were me.
She sent a message from my phone to my mother „I want to fuck you“. This was a latin joke again?
She stole money from my wallet many times and took 3000 USD from ATM ( my account) without my permission. She never gave it back. I know she has money ( stolen from me) but she lies to me. Always she spends all my money. If I get paid, she immidiately wants to waste it for restaurants and shopping.  
She is violent, she broke my TV screen, the wall in my bathroom, she damaged my LCD monitor. She threatened to destroy my laptop.
She can throw me with food, she did it in restaurant a couple of times. Common among argentinians?  She can totally lose her control. She kicked and punched me many times. Her fantacy is one day to fuck me with strap-on dildo as she said. Is she a sadistic person?
She likes to tease me with photos of erected penises using her phone. In restaurants she teases me with photos of shiteaters. Normal in Argentina?
She deleted constantly all our Facebook conversations in my phone.  She hides her phone number when she calls me. I cannot call her. She never gave any photo of her to me as a gift in spite of we are dating 2 years already. Her friends does not know me. She forgot my birthday 2 times.
She is constantly telling that I am ugly and nobody wants me, only she likes me.
At the same time she is so decent girl and wants to have 1st time sex on our wedding night?!

#18
gostomper

gostomper
Considering that a lot of Argentine women will have sex on the first date, yeah I'd say you're being taken advantage of.

#19
gostomper

gostomper

chris, on 18 March 2017 - 09:25 PM, said:

You see ever since Francis became Pope Argentines have become very spiritual people.  Your friend is surely one of them. You must keep supporting her.  When you finally get married she will be very affectionate.

Hard to generalize a country of 40 million+ people. I think a lot of them could care less, just depends on how old they are and where in Argentina they are.

#20
Bajo_cero2

Bajo_cero2

Serafina, on 18 March 2017 - 08:53 PM, said:

Congrats, you're a sugar daddy. How do you even translate this into Spanish?!

Señor bueno o gato. La primera es mas del tango, la segunda actual.
www.rubilarcitizenship.com
Dr. Christian Rubilar




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