jaredwb said:While Johnno might be a little less tactful than others, I don't totally disagree with him. In the US illegal immigration...and yes, it is ILLEGAL (they are BREAKING the LAW) is a massive concern. I'm not sure about the exact numbers in Australia, nor do I think the exact numbers matter, but in the US it's in the Millions.
This is a complete fabrication.Johnno said:the then NORMAL standard of ''terra nullius'' that was applied by ALL European nations in their empire building and the establishment of colonies
You are referring to asylum seekers arriving by boat to Australia. They are not illegals, on arrival their status has to be determined according to the international protocols governing refugees that Australia is signatory to.Johnno said:these illegals
Agreed, with the qualification that I am obviously unable to verify neither your age nor your tax status.Johnno said:for the stupid old taxpayer (i.e. ME)
And thus arose the question about what the first inhabitants must have thought about another alien culture which also arrived in boats.Johnno said:filled with aliens who have never and will never assimilate and whose beliefs, ideology and culture is utterly incompatible with the Australian way of life...
Not really, what you are referring to are arrivals by boat seeking asylum. Seeking asylum is not illegal under Australian law or international law. Australia being an island with an arid and inhospitable north, the only 'illegals coming in' one could really speak of would be (hypothetically) undetected passport or visa forgeries arriving through official points of entry. Contrast this with somewhere with land borders like the US where it is estimated there are half a million or more undocumented arrivals per year.Johnno said:The numbers of the illegals coming in can always be debated
It is an article of international law. Please see the United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees of 1951 and the 1967 protocol both of which Australia is signatory to. They might also be useful for helping you to understand and differentiate terms like refugee, asylum seeker and illegal immigrant which you are clearly having trouble with.Johnno said:There was NEVER a referendum on this
Sounds like it would attract a lot of voters to run on the ticket 'giving you the opportunity to rescind the international conventions which Australia is a signatory to through referenda' Perhaps you should start your own campaign for the next elections, you could throw the entire Geneva Conventions in.Johnno said:- neither side of government would have been dumb enough to hold one over the last 40 years because if they had the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of the Australian public would have voted almost unanimously for these criminals to be put back in their boats and sent back to where they came from...
There are plenty of comparable and even smaller nations that aren't so easily pressured or duped into being the bitch of the big boys.Johnno said:As for the argument about Australia engaging in illegal wars etc - am I disagreeing? No - but are we engaging in these ON OUR OWN or because we are pressured by the BIG BOYS who are the *real* warmongers to ''be part of the team'' and ''do our bit'' ? I don't think I need to name who the REAL players are here - EVERYBODY knows
I'm fairly sure, whether you went back 50, 100, 200, 500 or 1000 years the body count from European/Western initiated conflicts and colonial 'adventures' would dwarf those of your Muslim brethren; WWII 60 odd million, Stalin 30 odd million, OK lets not even include the Atlantic Slave trade (25 odd million), WWI (15 odd million), Conquest of the Americas, 30 Years' War, Fall of Rome, 100 Years' War, the European colonisation of Asia and Africa, The Crusades...Johnno said:what I think is the only real solution to the middle east - that ALL western nations STAY OUT of it and let the buggers do what they want to do anyway - wipe each other out - they have been doing it for thousands of years and its a way of life over there
I think you may have overestimated on your tally there, in a similar way that halfwit would be a gross exaggeration of your sagacity. If it was a matter of any importance I would demand a recount.Johnno said:Truly - in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king - I may not know it all but I'm happy to stick with having one eye that works
Johnno said:My my my - this topic has taken some interesting turns and twists Yes NDCJ - I came into Argentina LEGALLY... lol
Johnno said:As for most of the above re: Australia its interesting to note that the only thing not being considered here is the facts... The people smugglers involved in attempting to smuggle these illegal immigrants into Australia have, on a few occasions, been caught and prosecuted - prosecuted because (surprise surprise) they broke the law - which in my book means an action which is - wait for it - ILLEGAL... lol
Johnno said:Yes - Australia is a signatory for a lot international treaties and conventions - and yes we take genuine refugees - but there is a LEGAL process/official channels to go through - and anyone can apply for refugee status if they meet the criteria - the *illegals* coming in on these people smugglers' boats have *not* gone through official channels, are *not* your ''typical'' refugees - in many cases they are paying $10,000 US or more to the people smugglers in Indonesia/elsewhere who are bringing them in and whilst a few have suggested that the numbers are not that significant I think we were looking at about 300 boats that were detected/stopped last year alone - and yet again, we've ended up in Australia having to build special off-shore and on-shore facilities to house/feed/look after these people as each one in turn is processed to verify if any of them are actually able to be considered legitimate refugees...
Johnno said:The cost to the country and the individual taxpayer is ENORMOUS - and I guess if certain individuals feel uncomfortable with someone speaking his mind (and even more shocking, backing up his opinion with verifiable facts) and addressing a problem that is *real* I would humbly suggest the problem is not with the person speaking his mind - its with those individuals who have a problem with, and are threatened by, someone expressing a view that is incompatible with their own world view - sad really lol
Johnno said:Ho hum - I honestly couldn't be bothered - but I will post a couple of links that at least define illegal immigration into Australia in fairly clear and understandable terms - terms of the extent of the problem, the side effects, the costs and so on:
Johnno said:To address the idea that this is ''not a problem'' - even Gillard herself (our not so beloved prime minister) has quite a bit to say on it - because she KNOWS she has to if she wants to keep her job:
Johnno said:This is one article that addresses the costs involved - per each individual illegal immigrant:
Johnno said:Once again - the extent of the problem:
Johnno said:(Please note - NONE of these URLs are ''One Nation'' type websites - several are Aust. government and what I am sure even you would consider to be *mainstream* sources of information lol
Johnno said:MORE on what this problem is actually COSTING the Australian taxpayer (or from your point of view I guess it is a non-problem):
ANOTHER cost - hurting those who deserve so much better:
A few more facts: http://www.gwb.com.au/2000/lee/140100.htm
Johnno said:Okay - thats at least 5 minutes it took me to find these links in Google - and is only a tiny fraction of the information that is available online - anyone who can read through all of this and still think there ''isn't an issue'' or that this isn't costing every hard working taxpaying Australian citizen out there a small fortune - or that this is in fact not even ''illegal immigration'' - well, what is the old saying?
"Convince a man against his will - he'll remain of the same opinion still''
Johnno said:Bottom line: the amount of factual information and data that backs up everything I've said is enormous - but what it really comes down to is the idea that a lot of people see what they *want* to see - just the way it is I guess