Argentina as a Bitcoin farmer

Redpossum

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No, no no no no! There's no electricity to spare for a big company to be doing this. What is the gov't thinking?

"The company’s aim is to use up to 210 megawatts and towards that they plan to install over 55,000 machines early next year, "
 

jblaze5779

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The power is cheap but I'm wondering how they're able to import all the technology and equipment they need to make bitcoin...? Computer stuff isn't cheap here.
 

antipodean

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The power is cheap but I'm wondering how they're able to import all the technology and equipment they need to make bitcoin...? Computer stuff isn't cheap here.
Energy is expensive in Argentina like anywhere else. The difference is that Argentina’s government spends the equivalent of 3%+ of its GDP on energy subsidies. Then even more (US$3bn+) is spent on importing energy in various forms.
Because the consumers (households and businesses) don’t see how expensive it really is, they use more of it and ultimately pay the difference by a) inflation to cover the monetary emission to pay the subsidies b) energy disruptions when there is not enough to go around and c) capital controls to protect the reserves ultimately needed to keep Argentina’s lights on.

The 50% tax on importing equipment will probably quickly be recovered in the form of direct and indirect energy subsidies.
 

Ries

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This is truly idiotic. And its one more example of the global trend to privatize profit and socialize expenses. If the bitcoin falls, and it will (cyclicly) then the miners shut down. If the bitcoin rises, the profits immediately shift to offshore banks. Argentina does not profit in any way, and Argentines, once again, get screwed. Bit coin mining is ecologically unsustainable, produces electronic waste in the sense of 55,000 obsolete computers in 2 or 3 years, and is a way to subsidize speculators.
 

jblaze5779

Registered
Energy is expensive in Argentina like anywhere else. The difference is that Argentina’s government spends the equivalent of 3%+ of its GDP on energy subsidies. Then even more (US$3bn+) is spent on importing energy in various forms.
Because the consumers (households and businesses) don’t see how expensive it really is, they use more of it and ultimately pay the difference by a) inflation to cover the monetary emission to pay the subsidies b) energy disruptions when there is not enough to go around and c) capital controls to protect the reserves ultimately needed to keep Argentina’s lights on.

The 50% tax on importing equipment will probably quickly be recovered in the form of direct and indirect energy subsidies.
That's what I meant. Cheap to them. Expensive to everyone who subsidizes the gov rates.
 

Redpossum

Registered
This is truly idiotic. And its one more example of the global trend to privatize profit and socialize expenses. If the bitcoin falls, and it will (cyclicly) then the miners shut down. If the bitcoin rises, the profits immediately shift to offshore banks. Argentina does not profit in any way, and Argentines, once again, get screwed. Bit coin mining is ecologically unsustainable, produces electronic waste in the sense of 55,000 obsolete computers in 2 or 3 years, and is a way to subsidize speculators.
This, exactly.

When Satoshi Nakamoto created BTC in the aftermath of the 2007 crash, he did so with the intention of giving the people an alternative to central bank controlled fiat currencies, an alternative that couldn't be devalued at whim by governments of the rich. But, like many/most technically brilliant people, he was naive. What he intended to be used for commerce, has instead been hijacked by speculators, whose manipulations have made it too unstable to be used for its intended design purpose of commerce.

Mining of BTC went the same way. When it was just a few geeks mining casually with their gaming rigs, the power consumption was nothing out of the norm. But as speculation drove the price up to dizzying heights, the mass miners appeared with their vast farms of mining rigs. Then the competition became so fierce that simple GPU's were no longer adequate, and the first ASIC (application-specific integrated circuit) chips appeared, with even more voracious appetites for power.

With the best of intentions, Satoshi created a Godzilla-like monster, and that is a textbook illustration of the Law of Unintended Consequences.
 

lunar

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When Satoshi Nakamoto ... But, like many/most technically brilliant people, he was naive. What he intended to be used for commerce, has instead been hijacked by speculators, whose manipulations have made it too unstable to be used for its intended design purpose of commerce.
What is naive about this? Do you understand the proof-of-work concept? Can you, being a pragmatic person, suggest a viable alternative? Bitcoin mining is resource wasteful by design, but the idea is not naive.

Stability is a sign of maturity. And bitcoin is still not mature at this point. I mean not in a technological sense, but people opinions about what the fair price is supposed to be is not established, hence high volatility.

As to "hijacked by speculators", I would say the stock market is hijacked by speculators, the real estate market is hijacked by speculators. So, hardly the bitcoin is an exception here.

And no, it is not cool to use subsidized electricity for mining :) and most likely bitcoin mining will be banned here, as it is banned in China.
 
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Redpossum

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What is naive about this? Do you understand the proof-of-work concept? Can you, being a pragmatic person, suggest a viable alternative? Bitcoin mining is resource wasteful by design, but the idea is not naive.
I meant he was naive about human nature, capitalism, and how money, like water, always finds the cracks. Yes, I understand proof of work, No, I cannot suggest a viable alternative off the top of my head. I agree the basic concept of an alternative to government controlled fiat currencies is not naive; that's not what I meant.

Stability is a sign of maturity. And bitcoin is still not mature at this point. I mean not in a technological sense, but people opinions about what the fair price is supposed to be is not established, hence high volatility.
True. True. I do not agree that this is the cause of volatility.

As to "hijacked by speculators", I would say the stock market is hijacked by speculators, the real estate market is hijacked by speculators. So, hardly the bitcoin is an exception here.
True, but painfully obvious.

And no, it is not cool to use subsidized electricity for mining :) and most likely bitcoin mining will be banned here, as it is banned in China.
Agree, and who knows? This is Argentina.
 

Dougie

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Always makes me laugh when people get all worked up about BTC not being green. The traditional banking system uses far more energy.

What's the energy footprints of all the banking branches, the heating, the air conditioning, the employees who need to travel to the branch to work, the customers who need to travel, the guns and trucks needed to transport money, the material and energy to print physical money, the energy for ATMs and on and on....?

And soon cryptos like Ethereum and Solana will be able to replace all the functions of a bank using much less energy using POS.
 
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