Argentina Ranked #160 In World For Economic Freedom

[Lulu-Kyoko]

I don't know, make of this what you will... 2013 Index of Economic Freedom:

[background=rgb(247, 252, 253)]"Argentina’s economic freedom score is 46.7, making its economy the 160th freest in the 2013 Index. Its overall score has decreased by 1.3 points. With lower scores on six of the 10 economic freedoms including property rights and government spending, Argentina now ranks 27th out of 29 countries in the South and Central America/Caribbean region, and its overall score is far below the regional and world averages."[/background]

http://www.heritage.org/index/country/argentina

 

[Joe]

I'm guessing 28 and 29 are Venezuela and Cuba respectively.

 

[Matiasba]

Whats wrong with that? economic freedom not necesarily means well being. I do not agree with that statement. If you give economic freedom the big fish eats the small fish, and the wealth concentration would be bigger. Economic freedom is a speech very common used by the big enterprises, the multinationals, so they can buy medium size locals companies along the world. It means to give the exact same rules and beneffits to the bigger and the smaller in the market. With that conditions the pymes or the little bussiness cant fight with these giants.
I believe there must be some different rules to go to the market and fight. People, companies, everyone has different needs and the market itself cant provide it. You have to correct it. Thats why you have subsidios for the smaller or the poorer, and taxes to the biggers. You need to balance that fight in the market.
Anyways, the bigger still always win. Thats why we have very few people who have billion dollars just for themselves and 2/3 of the humanity under the poverty line.

 

[camberiu]

Whats wrong with that? economic freedom not necesarily means well being. I do not agree with that statement. If you give economic freedom the big fish eats the small fish, and the wealth concentration would be bigger.

Might want to take a look at the list to see if reality is matching your point of view. check the list out and see if you can find some co-relation between economic freedom and a country's level of development. Let me know how many developed countries do you find on the same league of economic freedom as Argentina. Also, might want to check where Chile, the most developed country in Latin America, currently ranks on the list.

http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

 

[PhilinBSAS]

Matias has a sound point - this index is a poor measure of comparative social welfare

It also has some explicitly pro-Washington political objectives.

"Freedom" for whom?

Seems it also shows poor correlation with GNP pc

I'd say it is of passing and superficial interest only.

Wikipedia (again)

"Stefan Karlsson of the Ludwig von Mises Institute, challenged the usefulness of the index due to the fuzziness of many of the categories used to determine freedom.[sup][21][/sup] John Miller roundly criticizes the "Index", writing in Dollars & Sense, "In the hands of the Wall Street Journal and the Heritage Foundation, Washington's foremost right-wing think tank, however, an economic freedom index merely measures corporate and entrepreneurial freedom from accountability. Upon examination, the index turns out to be a poor barometer of either freedom more broadly construed or of prosperity."[sup][22][/sup] According to Left Business Observer, the Index has only a 33% statistical correlation with a standard measure of economic growth, GDP per capita.

 

[camberiu]

I think both you and Matias would be hard pressed to make a case that the top 5 or 10 countries in the list are suffering from any kind of massive oppression from their "corporate overlords".

I think most Argentinians would prefer to live like New Zealanders or the Swiss, who rank #4 and #5 respectively on the list of "countries that allow corporations to rule freely and screw the small fish" than to live like Equatorians and Ukranians, who like Argentina, keep the "evil corporate/capitalist overlords" on a tight leash.

 

[Matiasba]

I dont know about that list, I know how goverments here in Argentina ended with economic freedom policies. Both, the dictatorship and Menemismo, applied policies of apertura comercial and eliminated protectionism, in all its forms. What happened? the debt grew like no other time in this country, more poverty, deindustralization, unemployment, and with the menemismo, the worst crisis this country ever lived. Thats where this country went with economic freedom policies. In fact, those were the only two goverments in history to apply that model, the first one started under a dictatorship, using the force, anti democratically, and the other one, in a context of hiperinfaltion, by other kind of force, it had to continue that plan.
I know that economic model works in some countries, but Im talking about Argentina, and it didnt. In Chile, the most developed country of the south cone, they have that model, since Pinochet (also by the force). It worked for them, but they still have lot of poverty, and the social differences are much more bigger in Chile than in Argentina. In fact, the lower classes in Chile are more restricted than here. A LOT. They have practically no access to a decent health and education. Here you have some public hospitals, like the Clinicas that are VERY prestigious, and, for example, the chances for a working class man to go to university are huge here, better than anywhere in Latin America, and even some countries in europe. We have a tradition of free education that is the envy of ever south american country. In countries like Brazil or Chile, where social differences are bigger, only the upper classes have access to universities. That is well being.

 

[camberiu]

It worked for them, but they still have lot of poverty, and the social differences are much more bigger in Chile than in Argentina. In fact, the lower classes in Chile are more restricted than here. A LOT. They have practically no access to a decent health and education. Here you have some public hospitals, like the Clinicas that are VERY prestigious, and, for example, the chances for a working class man to go to university are huge here, better than anywhere in Latin America, and even some countries in europe. We have a tradition of free education that is the envy of ever south american country. In countries like Brazil or Chile, where social differences are bigger, only the upper classes have access to universities. That is well being.

Now you are just repeating the propaganda and the data do not back those claims up at all. It is a common myth here that the "little guy" in Chile is worse off, when this is as far from the truth as it gets.


Child Mortality rate:
Chile (Where evil corporations can freely screw the little guy)
vs.
Argentina (Where Cristina keeps the evil capitalist pigs at bay)


Life Expectancy:
Chile (Where evil corporations can freely screw the little guy)
vs.
Argentina (Where Cristina keeps the evil capitalist pigs at bay)


Malnutrition for Children Under 5:
Chile (Where evil corporations can freely screw the little guy)
vs.
Argentina (Where Cristina keeps the evil capitalist pigs at bay)

GNI Index:
Chile (Where evil corporations can freely screw the little guy)
vs.
Argentina (Where Cristina keeps the evil capitalist pigs at bay)


Chile has left Argentina in the dust on most social indicators. And they did it without Corralitos, currency controls, import restrictions, complex and byzantine labor laws, media conglomerate breakdowns and everything else that is being done and has been done here in Argentina since Peron. Let's not forget that up to the 1970s, Chile was a MUCH poorer and needy country than Argentina.

 

[Joe]

I rather give the corporations a free hand than the government. If I don't like a corporation's product I can choose not to buy it. With government there is no choice, you're forced to pay off the crony corruption through taxes, bribes, etc.

People still have the naive belief, despite all evidence to the contrary, that the government is there to serve you. They are there to line their own pockets.

So people are proud that Argentina is in the same camp with Cuba and Venezuela. Have any of you ever been to Cuba? I have and if you thought Argentina is a basket case - you ain't seen nothing.

 

[jp]

Chile leads Latin America in social mobility
http://www.thisischile.cl/8369/2/chile-leads-latin-america-in-social-mobility/News.aspx