Best Countries To Live In

[Redbeanz]

A favorite refrain of people in the U.S. when a presidential election approaches, is "If _____ is elected, I'm leaving the country." With the thought of a possible President Trump, I started wondering which countries people who really meant that, might choose, and what the criteria might be: less corruption, less bellicose rhetoric, less inclination to war, less pressure to fight wars as "the world's policeman," less bigotry, less influence on elections and policy by Big Money? At the same time, what characteristics of the U.S., its system, way of life, standard of living, cost of living vís-a-vís value / services received, government and the people themselves, would be good to find in a theoretically better country?

Because most on this forum have lived in multiple cultures and have traveled in many more countries, I'd like to present this question for discussion:
Which country or countries would you choose above others, with respect to these thoughts and criteria of your own?

 

[EJLarson]

Because most on this forum have lived in multiple cultures and have traveled in many more countries, I'd like to present this question for discussion:
Which country or countries would you choose above others, with respect to these thoughts and criteria of your own?

I've lived in a few, not as many as some of the folks here, I'm sure. The damnably frustrating part of trying to answer a question like this is that my answer is a very unsatisfying, "it depends." On what? Well, on which part of life we're discussing. Should we make this imaginary move based on our preferences regarding:
* culture
* economics
* personal freedom (few laws, rules, governing personal actions)
* politics
* social (languages, friends)
* infrastructure (E.g., where's the nearest int'l airport?; internet?)
* physical environment (climate, terrain, etc.)

So right now we're discussing the area of politics: "I refuse to live in a country where Bernie, Trump, Hillary, Berlusconi, Macri (insert least favorite name) can be President." So maybe your perfect political climate is in Iceland - or Mexico (if you're nuts).

What compromises ensue from this decision, and can you live with them long-term? (See all non-political list items.) That's why, for me, the US with all its many warts is the best compromise - but I'm fortunate enough to be able to spend large chunks of the year in my home in Argentina and enjoy those bullet-list items that, for me, are better here.

The problem in saying "I just can't stand it here anymore because a, b, or c happened," is that, wherever you choose to go, it's just trading one set of issues for another - and the Law of Unintended Consequences rules the universe.

Damned thing is, wherever you go, you run into the same thing: people.

 

[Redbeanz]

Should we make this imaginary move based on our preferences regarding:
* culture
* economics
* personal freedom (few laws, rules, governing personal actions)
* politics
* social (languages, friends)
* infrastructure (E.g., where's the nearest int'l airport?; internet?)
* physical environment (climate, terrain, etc.)

Good points, all. And that's why I raised the question for consideration. People in earthquake-prone countries sometimes say they couldn't bear living in countries with hurricanes. Sweden has wonderful social services, though financed by very high taxes, and it is cold and dark in the winter. Singapore is spotless but lacks the freedom from picayune laws that we enjoy in Argentina. I have had people in Argentina tell me that they couldn't live in the U.S. because of the corruption, a statement that really gave me pause.

After I got past thinking about corruption in Argentina vs the U.S., I started thinking about other contentment factors, such as stability of government, inflation, natural disasters, health/cleanliness standards, weather, safety, and relative freedom. Thinking about countries in various parts of the world that we have experienced, I never came up with anyplace utopian, and am interested in the ideas of other forum members. Just a (positive) thought exercise -

 

[EJLarson]

After I got past thinking about corruption in Argentina vs the U.S., I started thinking about other contentment factors, such as stability of government, inflation, natural disasters, health/cleanliness standards, weather, safety, and relative freedom. Thinking about countries in various parts of the world that we have experienced, I never came up with anyplace utopian, and am interested in the ideas of other forum members. Just a (positive) thought exercise -

Yeah, I knew what you were after and I sort of derailed the theme with my personal bloviating. Apologies for that, but you did press one of my favorite buttons.

"If x happens, I'm leaving the country!" By actual count, that has been said 123,738,917 times, and no one's left yet. (Look it up.)

 

[Redbeanz]

Yeah, I knew what you were after and I sort of derailed the theme with my personal bloviating. Apologies for that, but you did press one of my favorite buttons.

"If x happens, I'm leaving the country!" By actual count, that has been said 123,738,917 times, and no one's left yet. (Look it up.)

Exactly! When I hear that, I always burst out laughing.
And never apologize about derailing a theme of mine -- I always enjoy a mental trip through the unexpected? Thanks, Ed!

 

[Dada]

I'm not sure if we make our choices rationally here. I can give you a long list of things I like about Argentina. Similarly, I can also give you a long list of things I like about the US or UK... Which will never explain why I love one and not the other. It's a bit like a love affair. You know immediately if the chemistry is there or not. If it is, you're much more likely to tolerate and be able to deal with the shadows. There is no objectivity at all. For me, it's definitely Argentina. It's actually the first country I want to stay and die in, ever, and I have lived in many.

 

[Idois]

Thinking about countries in various parts of the world that we have experienced, I never came up with anyplace utopian, and am interested in the ideas of other forum members. Just a (positive) thought exercise -

I have lived in a dozen of countries and have worked in a few more, and traveled to more than 160, and at a relatively young age I set out to find 'my place'.

Over the years I found many places where I (at a time) simply felt good (I was not very conscious of many of the social factors when I set out exploring the world), and enjoyed the place, simply because it clicked with me emotionally, or because I fell in love with a local, a combination of both, or simply because I got tired to vagabonding and needed to rest/create a base for some time.

To clarify, I did not seek to integrate myself in the society but simply to coexist in a rather anonymous way. Looking back I see how this worked in my favor to some extent, allowing me to enjoy places I would not otherwise, given your parameters above. I can name Cape Town, Kuala Lumpur, Bogota, and a few more as such examples.

Eventually I gave up the notion of 'my place' (i.e. my utopia) and accepted the dynamic nature of the evolution of my knowledge, understanding and intuition. Depending on passive income and location-independent and remote working arrangements, I never worked in the local economy of the places where I lived (except on few rare occasions in Scandinavia), hence my experience may be different than the experience of someone who moved around, integrated into the society and worked there. And I have observed that this tendency of mine perhaps helped me enjoy the place more than I would, had I applied the criteria you mention (i.e. 'ignorance is a bliss'?).

On the other hand, using your criteria only, I can say with certainty that I would not have chosen Buesnos Aires as my base. Having said this, I am glad to be here for now, and will be glad when the time comes to move on. I have now completely accepted my poly-chromatic, cultural 'nomadism' as a way to live my voluntary expatriation as some form of an existentialist philosophy of life. Or at least thinking of it this way makes me feel good these days

I do have a side question: would your answer to the ideal place to call a base change if you 100% depended on passive income?

 

[Idois]

You know immediately if the chemistry is there or not. If it is, you're much more likely to tolerate and be able to deal with the shadows. There is no objectivity at all.

Well said!

Side question: are you conscious of what 'causes' the chemistry with a particular place?

 

[Dada]

The older I get, the more I tend to believe that behind every great attraction is a compatible diagnosis. For someone resourceful, energetic, mismanaged with propensity towards excess, melodramatic, optimistic, always right, sometimes bitch and Malbec lover like me, no wonder Argentina feels like home.

 

[EJLarson]

The older I get, the more I tend to believe that behind every great attraction is a compatible diagnosis.

Probably true, but life would have been a lot less happy if I'd actually diagnosed the attractions when they happened. In fact, being the anal engineer that I am, diagnosis would likely have killed the buzz every time. But way after the fact? Yeah, that wouldn't hurt nearly as much. (After all, I married an Argentine and am very glad I didn't over-think that decision.)