Buenos Aires after 5 years still adjusting

[perry]

Today I saw some old friends who are leaving Argentina for the wonders of Brazil . They are leaving for many reasons but mostly the perception that is common that Portenos are unwelcolming and difficult and life in the Capital Federal has become too stressful .

The grass is always greener on the other side as by this very interesting forum that shows the negative side of paradise with over 300 replies.
http://www.brazzil.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9529&Itemid=78

I like to ask the long term members if they have adjusted to Argentinian life and feel accepted by the community at large. I look forward to reading your replies

 

[citygirl]

Well, it will be 3 years in the fall since I left NYC, don't know if that counts as long-term.

I certainly don't feel I've fully acclimated to life here. I've discussed this before but as a single female, I find it difficult to integrate into society. Initially, I met tons of expats (easy) but they have pretty much all left so that's out. And most woman in their 30s are married with kids and many don't work so I struggle to form friendships because we don't have a lot of common interests. So yes, it's challenging. I have no interest in hanging out in bars with 20 somethings and I have yet to find where the 30 something crowd hangs out.

Do I feel accepted? Well, I've made some great friends here. And the true friends I've made here are absolutely there for me when i need something. And I've certainly met a lot of very interesting people from all over the world that I wouldn't have met if I had stayed in the US. And I love many things about Argentina so I don't regret my time here and there are a lot of positive things to say. However, it's certainly not been a bed of roses. It is a stressful place to live - most cities are of course but the day-to-day grind of trying to get things done can wear you down.

 

[Ashley]

I agree with Citygirl. There are definite ups and downs to living in Buenos Aires...like living anywhere. I also think it also depends what stage of your life you're at. I moved here in my early 20s and living in Buenos Aires was a great opportunity and a lot of fun. Not to mention that I had a couple of good employment opportunities here and the cost of living/quality of life ratio were very good compared to the UK.
Seven years later and while I still love Argentina, most of my expat friends have gone, I do have a few good Arg friends here but don't have the same level of friendship I have with my closest friends from home. When it comes to friendships, especially with local women, there are a lot of cultural differences that come into play. I've always been a girls-girl but most of my Argentine friends are male. I also feel like the opportunities for me to grow within my profession are limited here and certainly my salary is a loooooot less than it would be in the UK. I'm at a real cross-roads between do I stay where I love (here) and risk further jeopardising financial stability in my future or do I go back to the UK and join the rat-race. I also feel like if I have a family here, I'm going to feel the absence of my British girlfriends and family so much more.
I think that if I'd have moved to Buenos Aires later in life and had property here or if I earned in foreign currency, I wouldn't feel quite so torn now. Certainly the people I know who have no plans to leave are a lot more stable in certain areas of their lives than I am.

 

[fifs2]

I havent accessed the Brazilian link et but I can only imagine it has issues that we will all recognise. The economy may be more stable in Brazil, the living standard slightly higher and more predictable for the middle class but I cannot imagine security being anything but worse than BsAs so paradise I wouldn´t think - but then again where is paradise but a fantasy in our heads where we blend all the different things we love about different places merged into one. For me it includes the beaches of Hawaii, the rolling hills of Ireland, the lakes and government of Sweden, the architecture and buzz of Paris, the warmth of Argentine people etc etc...
I can only concur with the previous posts that after 6 years I have adapted but that isnt the same thing as being absolutely integrated...to me, to be integrated I would have to be with an Argentinean boyfriend/husband and see my destiny as being 100% here...but as mine is Swedish and we chose to come here I can tell you I feel a stranger in every country including Ireland, Sweden and Argentina. Changing country at 35 was harder than any other move I made before that so I really feel age comes into play also as I am looking for meaningful friendships and found mine in Mexican and Peruvian friends...with only 1 real Argentinean female friend. I really cannot blame them that we are so different...I grew up learning many practical talents like cooking, sewing and ironing in addition to studying like crazy and travelling the world alone from an early age - there are times when I feel I missed out by not being more home based, more focused on my personal grooming, more coquettish etc
Anyhow before I start revealing all my life secrets let`s hope this interesting thread helps bring many different perspectives on integrating into thsi fanscinating but often stressful life in bsas..

 

[laureltp]

This is so true. I teach English and in a group class about a month ago I was teaching country names and nationalities. When we got to talking about Brazil the Argentines idealized it. They felt the standard of living there was WAY better than Argentina. Better salaries, better climate, people, beaches, salaries... They seemed to not realize that one of the world's largest villa is in Brazil, that they too struggle with poverty and certainly have some high levels of violent crime activity. I do think Brazil would be amazing to visit, but I know they have their problems too.

This group of students however were to quick to judge their own country and idealize another. It made me kind of sad. Sometimes I feel bad for the Argentines for being so negative about their own country. I don't like futbol, so the world cup doesn't really interest me, but I do like to see the Argentines acting patriotic for once. I wish they could be like this all the time!!!

 

[SaraSara]

And most woman in their 30s are married with kids and many don't work so I struggle to form friendships because we don't have a lot of common interests. So yes, it's challenging. I have no interest in hanging out in bars with 20 somethings and I have yet to find where the 30 something crowd hangs out.

If you are interested in making Arg. friends, try joining one of the many local special-interest groups : photography, painting, choir singing, dancing, bicycling, bird watching, "cineclubs", astronomy, poetry, etc. Buenos Aires is crammed with such groups; they meet regularly and organize outings.

Another possibility is to go to a Talktime coffee - locals and a few foreigners get together in "confiterias" to practice a language once a week. Most of them are in English.

I've attended a few of those, and met people of all ages and many different backgrounds, all interesting. At the start of each meeting the group picks a topic from a list and the conversation centers around that. When the meeting is over many stay to talk with people they found interesting.

http://www.talktime.com.ar/

 

[sergio]

If you're single and not in your 20's this is not an easy place to live. People tend to make their friends in elementary / high school and keep them for life. Then there is the family which is more important here than in the US. The best assimilated expats I know have married Argentines. Their lives revolve around life in a 'country', children and schools, asados, weddings, baptisms, vacations etc. If you're here on your own it is quite hard to make friends and fit in. I know Brazilians better than Brazil (though I've been to Brazil many time on vacation). They're generally more easy-going and a lot less snobbish than Argentines. In that respect I imagine Brazil might be a friendlier place but I'm sure it has its share of problems.

 

[SaraSara]

They're generally more easy-going and a lot less snobbish than Argentines.

I don't think Argentines are as much snobbish as insular: they are happy in their little family cocoons and uninterested in outsiders. Their social lives revolve 70% around relatives, and 30% around people they have known since childhood.

The good thing is that whenever people marry an Argentine they are automatically integrated, and belong forever. (Please correct my grammar if that is wrong - the sentence looks weird but I don't know how to say it better)

 

[jantango]

I left my life in Chicago in February 1999, and I've never regretted the move for one second. I had to learn my way around the city and culture without the help of this kind of forum. I had to brush up on the language and having Argentine boyfriends forced me to learn. I knew that I had to assimilate into the culture or be unhappy. Five prior visits to BsAs gave me enough reason to pack my bags. I saw that family and friendships were important here, and that Argentines made time for them. I treasure my Argentine friends.

I rented a room in Caballito, then an apartment in Constitucion, and now own an apartment in Balvanera with my cat. I have more knowledge of the tango culture and spend my time writing a blog about it. I recently retired and can live here on social security. I attend many free cultural events.

Rather than try to expect things to be the same here as they were in the USA, I accept them as they are. I appreciate the great doctors who have time to listen to me and know me by name. I had to find my way alone to survive in this city and culture. I feel accepted as a part of my neighborhood, especially when neighbors and business owners take the time for a greeting and chat.

I have a simple lifestyle that suits me. I would have to be working if I lived in the USA.

 

[Lala]

Today is 4 years for me in BA. I share a similar experience to citygirl and Ashley – here I am in my early 30´s facing some multi-dimensional decisions. I have never let circumstances dictate where I should be or what I should be doing, and because of that, I have some amazing experiences under my belt – not to mention the people I have met along the way. For some reason, I never had fear of failure, always approached each phase of my life as an adventure, and although we all face tough times as expats, it is only now that I am looking back and wondering if I missed out on something. I have a boyfriend here, but even after 2 years I am not convinced that we would have anything outside of our life in BA. I´ve tried to picture moving with him to the US and start a new adventure, but something is holding me back. I would feel too responsible for his success, and I know all too well the challenges of living abroad. Maybe I am overly concerned due to the massive adjustments I have gone though to live here. I am not sure if going from here to there would necessarily be as difficult on all levels, but I just don´t know if the relationship would survive the stress, as I would just be passing these stress factors to my boyfriend as he will surely be in my shoes if we did move. But maybe I am underestimating him? Or underestimating myself?

So, do I stay, or do I go? Will I look back and regret taking the lonely road? Is being with a caring partner better in the long run than continually chasing another adventure? Should I just dive in like I always have with my life, take him with me and hope things work out? How do fiercely independent women find the balance?

I don´t think I will ever really fit in here. I was fluent in Spanish before I got here, so the language is not holding me back, but there is something missing in my humor here; I tend to be quiet in groups here rather than chat up someone---something I have no problem doing in English! I was in the US a few weeks ago for a visit home, and I remember laughing so hard…cracking up at so many things! Life was funny! I was funny! I got back here, and I´m not laughing as much, and now that I am aware of it, it makes me sad. I have the network of my boyfriend´s family, but he is kind of a black sheep, so that “enchufe” is not as useful as it could be.

En fin…I guess what I am getting at is I feel like I am just treading water…waiting for the tide to turn. I don´t feel like I really have any opportunities to advance professionally here, although I was very lucky to find a job here which has permitted me to work legally and make a decent living. Maybe I am just outgrowing the experience?

Sorry for being all over the map, but this thread struck a chord with me just as I was reflecting on reaching the 4 year mark. Thanks to all who have indirectly and unknowingly made my experience a little easier through their advice, stories and warnings on this board. I´m sure I´ll figure out what to do…eventually…