Citizenship by overstaying

[snapcracklepop]

Does anyone on this forum have personal experience entering Argentina as a tourist, overstaying their visa for 2 years, and then successfully applying for citizenship?

1. For those that were successful, did you stay put in Argentina for 2 years continuously (730 days unbroken without leaving the country), or did you leave and come back throughout the 2 year period, and still have success?

2. How do you demonstrate an "honest way of life"? Particularly for people who work remotely or receive foreign income via crypto or Western Union. I heard that local Argentine accountants can look at your foreign bank statements and draft something presentable to the courts?

 

[julia_en_ruta]

You might find these helpful

https://baexpats.org/threads/residency-requirements-for-citizenship.40886/
https://baexpats.org/threads/consitutional-approach-to-naturalisation-citizenship.45735/#post-431281
https://baexpats.org/threads/deposit-for-rentista-visa.44492/page-3#post-431592

 

[ventanilla]

This does not seem to work anymore. All of the examples of it working are very old.

 

[dsp27]

Does anyone on this forum have personal experience entering Argentina as a tourist, overstaying their visa for 2 years, and then successfully applying for citizenship?

1. For those that were successful, did you stay put in Argentina for 2 years continuously (730 days unbroken without leaving the country), or did you leave and come back throughout the 2 year period, and still have success?

2. How do you demonstrate an "honest way of life"? Particularly for people who work remotely or receive foreign income via crypto or Western Union. I heard that local Argentine accountants can look at your foreign bank statements and draft something presentable to the courts?

You can try your luck but be prepared to wait about five years and drop about $10,000 with zero guarantee of success (just a very rough estimate YMMV. Obviously both time and expense can vary substantially per case). You would need a lawyer and unless you're very lucky and gets a judge that is sympathetic your case will probably be rejected and you will have to appeal, the issue here is that you will be pretty much stuck in Argentina until your case has been resolved since if you were to leave while your case is still pending, you run a very high chance of being denied entry by the government (migraciones) since the court and the government are not the same thing, but they're different institutions with separate rules.

 

[steveinbsas]

You can try your luck but be prepared to wait about five years...

It will probably take at least three years from start to finish, but it is worth noting that, based on what has been posted by the lawyer who developed the strategy of applying for citizenship without a DNI, that it is possible to start the process as soon as you set foot on Argentine soil for the first time (addmitted as a tourist with residencia transitoria),

and drop about $10,000 with zero guarantee of success (just a very rough estimate YMMV.

The highest "quote" for the lawyer's fees I have read here is $6,500 USD and one member who is presently going this route with a different lawyer indicated he is paying less than that.

As the old expression goes, There are only two guarantees in life, and getting citizenship in Argentina obviously isn't one of them.

That being said, if I couldn't get temporary residency now, I would undoubtedly apply for citizenship without a DNI and be hapy to pay a lawyer to present my case.

You would need a lawyer and unless you're very lucky and gets a judge that is sympathetic your case will probably be rejected and you will have to appeal,

The same lawyer metioned may tie in this forum has previously indicated that being rejected (aka case denied) by the judge is always a possibllity, but he has also indicated that he knows which judges are most likely to issue a favorable "sentence" (aka verdict).

the issue here is that you will be pretty much stuck in Argentina until your case has been resolved ...

The lawyer has also indicate that it is possible to enter and leave the country as desired as long as the applicant for citizenship is in physicaly present the country at leas seven months each year (at least for the first two years).

I am not sure if that applies once the two year physical presence is met and then no longer an issue until the sentence is rendered.

...if you were to leave while your case is still pending, you run a very high chance of being denied entry by the government (migraciones)...

If you are represented by a laywer that should be preventable.and already may be a moot point, thanks to the case of the pregnant Russian women.

...the court and the government are not the same thing, but they're different institutions with separate rules.

...if the case of the pregnant Russian women actually set a Constitutional precedent, the "rules" of migraciones as applied to the residency of foreigners may no longer apply...as they are now considered to be unconstitutional (which, if my dates are correct, they have actually been since they were enacted the 1940's), while the "rules" for citizenship were defiend by the Constitution when it was enacted the early 1800's ....and the requisites for citizenship do not change unless the Constitution itself is ammended.

PS: If I am incorrect about any of what I have written in this post, I am sure that the aforementioned lawyer will make the appropriate corrections and, as always, I welcome him to do so.

 

[arvest]

It will probably take at least three years from start to finish, but it is worth noting that, based on what has been posted by the lawyer who developed the strategy of applying for citizenship without a DNI, that it is possible to start the process as soon as you set foot on Argentine soil for the first time (addmitted as a tourist with residencia transitoria),


The highest "quote" for the lawyer's fees I have read here is $6,500 USD and one member who is presently going this route with a different lawyer indicated he is paying less than that.

As the old expression goes, There are only two guarantees in life, and getting citizenship in Argentina obviously isn't one of them.

That being said, if I couldn't get temporary residency now, I would undoubtedly apply for citizenship without a DNI and be hapy to pay a lawyer to present my case.



The same lawyer metioned may tie in this forum has previously indicated that being rejected (aka case denied) by the judge is always a possibllity, but he has also indicated that he knows which judges are most likely to issue a favorable "sentence" (aka verdict).



The lawyer has also indicate that it is possible to enter and leave the country as desired as long as the applicant for citizenship is in physicaly present the country at leas seven months each year (at least for the first two years).

I am not sure if that applies once the two year physical presence is met and then no longer an issue until the sentence is rendered.



If you are represented by a laywer that should be preventable.and already may be a moot point, thanks to the case of the pregnant Russian women.



...if the case of the pregnant Russian women actually set a Constitutional precedent, the "rules" of migraciones as applied to the residency of foreigners may no longer apply...as they are now considered to be unconstitutional (which, if my dates are correct, they have actually been since they were enacted the 1940's), while the "rules" for citizenship were defiend by the Constitution when it was enacted the early 1800's ....and the requisites for citizenship do not change unless the Constitution itself is ammended.

PS: If I am incorrect about any of what I have written in this post, I am sure that the aforementioned lawyer will make the appropriate corrections and, as always, I welcome him to do so.

Is the two years residence requirements supposed to be 2 years continuously without leaving, and after you have 2 years under your belt you can come and go as you please? Or 2 years where you've made Argentina your home, but you are allowed to come and go for tourism etc

 

[steveinbsas]

Is the two years residence requirements supposed to be 2 years continuously without leaving, and after you have 2 years under your belt you can come and go as you please? Or 2 years where you've made Argentina your home, but you are allowed to come and go for tourism etc

According to recent posts by one of the lawyers who represents clients for citizenship without a DNI, the two year residency (aka physical presence) requirement can be met by being in the country for at least seven months of the first two years. Obviously, that means you don't have to stay coniniously. but I don't think he has ever said anything abut the time after that while you are presumably waitng for the sentence of the judge.

It's just my opinion, but I don't think it will matter after the two year requirment is met, but your lawyer (and only your lawer) should tell you what do do. Hopefully, you won't be very far outside of Argentina when the next lockdowns begin, and your "citizenship case in progress" will be grounds for you to be allowed to get back into the country (if that is even possible), no doubt with the help of your lawer at the border.

 

[ventanilla]

The process is indeed very arduous, it's basically just your lawyer demanding a change of judge over and over again until arriving at one known to award citizenship to people without residency. This might take 6 months. It could also take years and years, or maybe even never actually arrive at the correct judge. It's just luck.