Citizenship

Alpinista

Registered
I am living for almost two years here in Argentina (on a tourist visa). In these two years I went three times to Europe, two to three weeks each time for work related matters. Otherwise i made a couple of day trips to Colonia and Chile (while I was vaccationing in Patagonia). No overstays before Covid. I am married to an Argentinian citizen with two kids (Arg). I made once an attempt for permanent residency which I didnt complete (legal documents were complete, however some payment confirmations were missing and then i got fed up with the process).
I am not particularly keen on getting the citizenship per se. However, at one point i need to legalize my situation here. The risk of not reentering with my family being here is something that i want to avoid.
As far as I understand I am eligible for citizenship here.
Has anyone done this process before? Experiences? Especially i am keen to know
* how long did the process take (i understand it can vary considerably, depending on ghe judge)?
* is there a way to slow this process down? (Paradoxically that would potentially help me as - as far as i understand - during the process you are kind of protected, while a longer process might help me delaying in establishing my tax domicile here)
* as of when do the taxes (afip) come into play?
* what legal fees did you pay? (Lawyer) Are there also other legal fees?
 

antipodean

Registered
As far as I understand, you are indeed eligible, especially with wife and kids.

An immigration lawyer can take care of the process for you so you don't get fed up and give up again. Really, worth every cent. They even wait in line at Migraciones for you and can take care of legalizing documents in your own country etc. Although I have not done citizenship, I did ask my lawyers their fees for that and I don't recall the amount having raised an eyebrow. For residency matters, it is a few hundred at most.

Taxes, I think you may already have a tax liability here. It is important to remember that tax residency rules do not always follow immigration residency rules as in most countries of the world. IIRC, If you are here for more than 183 days then you are liable in some way or another unless you are here as a diplomat etc. But I would assume you have not been working illegally while in Argentina as a tourist and thus not having an "illegitimate source of income" - you have just been living off savings.
 

Bajo_cero2

Registered
You must pay tax if you live here. Enforcement is a different matter. To slow down the case makes no sense.
You have to pay on the edict at a newspaper. It cost average 2000 pesos.
 
P

Poopoo boy

Guest
Hey guys

I'm just wondering how much "time on the ground" is needed for citizenship. Meaning how much time during the 2 year period needs to be spent in Argentina?

I've been searching all day for a clear answer

Thanks!
 

FallenAngel

Registered
You will most likely need 2 years of residency where residency is defined as having a visa (not tourist). Sometimes you can waive this requirement if you get the right judge, but it is purely luck of the draw on how much the judge likes you and your personal situation.

To say that the 2 year residency requirement does not exist is misleading. The backlog of cases that have been in permanent judicial purgatory from 2014,15,16,17 and so on proves this point. The truth is that ultimately citizenship is granted via agreement from a judge. If the judge does not like your personal situation, then it does not matter the facts or even what the law says or the interpretation your lawyer has. The judge will throw the case into judicial purgatory and there will be no way out of it.

Welcome to Argentina.
 

Bajo_cero2

Registered
You will most likely need 2 years of residency where residency is defined as having a visa (not tourist). Sometimes you can waive this requirement if you get the right judge, but it is purely luck of the draw on how much the judge likes you and your personal situation.

To say that the 2 year residency requirement does not exist is misleading. The backlog of cases that have been in permanent judicial purgatory from 2014,15,16,17 and so on proves this point. The truth is that ultimately citizenship is granted via agreement from a judge. If the judge does not like your personal situation, then it does not matter the facts or even what the law says or the interpretation your lawyer has. The judge will throw the case into judicial purgatory and there will be no way out of it.
Welcome to Argentina.
This is a wrong perception of the real situation.
The main reason some cases delayed long time was because they were applied with few weeks in the country. So, they take the 2 years plus 18 months of procedure (42 months before quarantine) It was a successful trategy to avoid deportations. The deportation rate is zero.
The second reason was language. However, I won that at Supreme Court. All thouse cases cancelled the language requirements and are in process of a decision. BUT I have to ask one by one the holliday lift.
Regarding the legal residence, I acchieved over 100 unconstututionalities of the DNU 70/2017.
The third reason was criminal convictions and even those cases are under decision process with the holliday lifted.
There are about 20 cases that were rejected that are in processs of a new decision.
Purgatory? It is called defence. The former President tried to deport all my clients and he failed.
 

FallenAngel

Registered
This is a wrong perception of the real situation.
The main reason some cases delayed long time was because they were applied with few weeks in the country. ...
Purgatory? It is called defence. The former President tried to deport all my clients and he failed.
I hope you are right that it is the wrong perception. Every case I have seen started 1 year since date of residency at the earliest. Regardless of the circumstance citizenship is not granted here is one of your current big cases:

Link: http://scw.pjn.gov.ar/scw/home.seam
Jurisdiction: CCF
Case number / year: 7778 / 2015

As noted, this case is from 2015. This is the case you went to the supreme court. Yet, even in this case, there is no citizenship granted. Supreme court started way back in 2017 and has long since resolved.

This is a case that was the judge is blocking the case arbitrarily yet it is not mattering for the victim. That is 5 years old and many of the other cases are older than this in judicial purgatory.

This is a case where the person did not have a valid visa (illegal from the judges view, apparently). Where you have offered supreme court rulings. Hell, you even took this specific case to the Supreme Court back in 2017 and won.

Yet, despite all this, the case is still in no-mans-land in 2020. The judge just continues the case into a judicial purgatory and a sentence is never realized. This is a trend I have seen with several of your cases.

I am not criticizing you. If someone needs a citizenship lawyer you are the best in the country hands-down. However, making people believe that all they need is two-years in country, no criminal record, and a means to support themselves and they can get citizenship within 2 years is far away from the actual reality. There is a high probability that the person will be disappointed.

If someone wants to avoid getting a visa, then they are likely looking at a multi-year fight with a judge and the total process will take 4-5 years. If they want quick citizenship, then they need to get a valid visa and they can get within 2-3 years.
 

Bajo_cero2

Registered
I hope you are right that it is the wrong perception. Every case I have seen started 1 year since date of residency at the earliest. Regardless of the circumstance citizenship is not granted here is one of your current big cases:

Link: http://scw.pjn.gov.ar/scw/home.seam
Jurisdiction: CCF
Case number / year: 7778 / 2015

As noted, this case is from 2015. This is the case you went to the supreme court. Yet, even in this case, there is no citizenship granted. Supreme court started way back in 2017 and has long since resolved.

This is a case that was the judge is blocking the case arbitrarily yet it is not mattering for the victim. That is 5 years old and many of the other cases are older than this in judicial purgatory.

This is a case where the person did not have a valid visa (illegal from the judges view, apparently). Where you have offered supreme court rulings. Hell, you even took this specific case to the Supreme Court back in 2017 and won.

Yet, despite all this, the case is still in no-mans-land in 2020. The judge just continues the case into a judicial purgatory and a sentence is never realized. This is a trend I have seen with several of your cases.

I am not criticizing you. If someone needs a citizenship lawyer you are the best in the country hands-down. However, making people believe that all they need is two-years in country, no criminal record, and a means to support themselves and they can get citizenship within 2 years is far away from the actual reality. There is a high probability that the person will be disappointed.

If someone wants to avoid getting a visa, then they are likely looking at a multi-year fight with a judge and the total process will take 4-5 years. If they want quick citizenship, then they need to get a valid visa and they can get within 2-3 years.
This is not a case that represents at all the members of this forum.
You are misunderstanding what is going on. This is an impossible case and, even they really tried to reject it because, among other reasons, she is transgender with arrest order for deportation, illegal entry, irregular work, irregular residency, she doesn't speak neither write in Spanish, she cannot get an update of the criminal check from China, but they failed and there is one left report to reply.
All the issues were solved but the holiday for the quarantine happened and I did´t asked for the lift yet.
The case 6186/2016 is alike and the citizenship was granted by the same judge where I prosecuted an employed of the Court for racial discrimination.
However, most of my cases cannot be seen in the website of the Court.
What you see is what litigation and proper defense is about because most of my colleges abandon cases like these because they are too much work.
 
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Alpinista

Registered
Let's assume FallenAngel is right and the judge does not like my situation and citizenship is not granted: What happens then? Can I get back to scare one and apply for permanent residency?
 
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