Copyright On Tango

toongeorges

Registered
Hi,

does anyone know if I could license tango music in Argentina to organise tango events in Belgium? The organisation that is supposed to represent artists in Belgium and collects money for the use of music is very predatory. I would have to pay at least over 330 euro to organise a milonga, even when no one shows up, and we know any money we pay is not going to the right holders of tango music.

I would love to contribute to tango music when I organise a milonga. However, we are basically prevented from organising milongas, because the cost is out of proportion with the number of dancers and whatever money we pay does not contribute to tango music.
 

toongeorges

Registered
Make a private party......and charge to get in!!!!
They do not care about private parties, everyone has to pay, DJ, dance floor, dance schools, event organisers. Also they do not care they cannot get in, they come in anyway. They even show up in companies and if someone happens to be listening to a radio, the company has to pay 210 euro. Everyone who consumes music has to pay.

The minimum fee per event is listed in the table here: http://www.sabam.be/sites/default/files/t105_feestenfuiven.pdf
horizontal is the area in square meters, vertical the entrance fee. You have to add the price of drinks to the entrance fee (minus 1,40 euro). You have to pay at least 10% of all the costs you make and at least 10% of the revenue, whichever is more. Prices have to be augmented with 6% VAT.

I did a simulation of a realistic event, dance floor between 200 and 300 square meters, 50 people show up, entrance fee 7 euro, drinks for 2 euro. The revenue is 350 euro, the minimum I would have to pay them is 330,19 euro.

Is this only in Belgium or are copyright collection organisations elsewhere also overly aggressive? Their website is full with promo material to explain that they are not mobsters, which tells enough.

They distribute the money they collect among the associated artists. If there is money collected for music such as tango, for which there is no one claiming the royalties, then this money is distributed among the other artists who claim royalties.

The law says a contribution has to be made to use copyrighted work, but it does not say how much this contribution has to be. I will set up a non profit organisation and I think I will add in the statutes that these contributions cannot be higher than 10% of the revenue. Copyright collectors can set their fees by law, but non profit organisations can also decide about their statutes which are recognised by the law. The statutes are more important for my organisation than demands to pay by copyright collectors. If they do not agree, they have to start a lawsuit, but there is no sane judge who can rule that an organisation has to pay everything it has to copyright collectors who do not transfer the money to tango music, which I want to promote.
 

Bajo_cero2

Registered
Most of the best Tango music’s copyrights are over because they are 70 years old and up.

So, that is why they remastered them.

However, you should talk with one of the owners of La Viruta, with El Pebete (Horacio Godoy) because he plays vinyl records besides that the sound is different that has no copyrights and perhaps he has this on usb.
 

Macanudo

Registered
I may be wrong but as I understand it (and this information came directly from contacting SADAIC) in Argentina the copy write ends 70 years after the composer dies. So currently that includes Tangos written by poets that died before 1948. At least for rerecording the song. But I don't think that really has anything to do with playing tango music in a milonga. If I was facing a possible legal battle with a group that claims to have the right to charge for music rights abroad, I'd want to have something in writing from SADAIC before proceeding. I'm sure they would be happy to email it to you if you ask them. Talking to the owners of La Viruta, (the title of one of the most frequently played tangos in the milongas, written by Vicente Greco who died in 1924) is excellent advice to see what you can learn.
 

Bajo_cero2

Registered
Most of the tangos were under the name of the Director if the orchesta who was already then an elder person. Most of them are free of copyrights.

Also, Tango music has been declared a an asset if humanity. You should look for it plus the soft law of the culture depp. of UN.
 

Macanudo

Registered
Canaro has been credited with writing the most songs played in the milongas and he died in 1964. Yes the incredible songs of Bardi, Greco, Arolas, Villoldo are in the public domain for rerecording purposes, but the songs written by Troilo, Pugliese, DiSarli, D'Arienzo, Biagi, Fresedo, Caló, Firpo, De Caro, Laurenz, Maffia, Delfino, Cobian etc are not. Most of the songs with lyrics played in the milongas are not yet in public domain, but in a few years the great works of Manzi and Discepelo will be.
 
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