Gils Carbo, Procurator Fiscal - Resigns

Huey Long

Registered
So Huey, your conclusion is that Nisman was one scumbag investigating other scumbags? Is that pretty much it?
And the day before he's due to present his findings officially, he decides to top himself quite contrary to the arguments he was putting forward.
That Nisman was a criminal is crystal clear and that his findings were BULLSHIT feed by his SIDE boss (Stiuso) is even more obvious. The facts remain the same: HE DIDN'T WORK ALONE BUT IN A SPECIAL TEAM BUILT TO INVESTIGATE THE AMIA BOMBING. If he really had anything, which he didn't, the rest of his team could have presented this imaginary proof that we still haven't seen.

OK so now Pachter is a Mossad operative.
I was kinda expecting to hear that Nisman himself was working for the Mossad. Even better - Macri.
Oh, you really think he's a journalist :rolleyes:

Regarding Nisman's allegiances you can judge for yourself if he was an operative or not:
"En enero de 2011, Julian Assange le entregó a Santiago O’Donnell un pendrive con 2500 cables secretos de la diplomacia de los Estados Unidos referidos a la Argentina. Una de las cosas que más le llamó la atención a O’Donnell fue la información vinculada al atentado de la AMIA, en particular, la estrecha relación que mantenía el fiscal de la causa, Alberto Nisman, con la embajada norteamericana en Buenos Aires. “Dicha conducta incluye el adelantarle a la embajada medidas judiciales tanto de la fiscalía como del juzgado que entiende la causa AMIA, llevar borradores de resoluciones a la embajada para ser corregidos hasta conseguir la aprobación de la sede diplomática, y disculparse reiteradamente cuando no se dio preaviso de alguna medida judicial del caso a los diplomáticos y agentes de dicha embajada estadounidense”, explicó O’Donnell en un artículo titulado “Detrás de Nisman”, publicado el 18 de enero en su blog personal."

http://www.perfil.com/columnistas/los-cables-de-wikileaks-sobre-la-amia-y-la-grieta-mediatica-0128-0008.phtml

Despite the fact that Macri loves to ask foreign embassies what to do (this is a documented fact, he's on TV "confessing" it, so if you haven't seen it it's because your media choice is clearly biased) I don't think he's an operative, he's just slow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KT9Ds_JGH4

Re timing - not following your logic much. Yes they posted his flight details after he fled, at that point he was out of reach so this was really the most that could be done. "We've got your number". Before he fled, the idea was presumably to do more than divulge some personal info of his: that would be the precise reason for said flight...
So the so powerful state that murderer Nisman and left no proof couldn't get rid of this guy? The most they could do was posting this harmless details after he was out of reach? I can't follow your logic either, it couldn't have been so hard to prevent him to get out of reach several days after he broke the news. AFTERALL HE LEFT THE COUNTRY USING THE REGULAR CHANNELS, THEY COULD HAVE DETAINED HIM EASILY AT THE BORDER IF THEY REALLY WANTED. DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY COULDN'T GET A FRIENDLY JUDGE TO ISSUE AN ORDER TO INTERROGATE HIM? Come on, these actions you give so much importance to were clearly done by powerless officers, we are talking about a journalist in TELAM in cahoots with someone in Aerolineas and you are making it look like the full power of the state so either the state is an invalid that couldn't have anything to do with Nisman's death or there's no proper beef as you tried to imply and based your whole accusation. Did you follow my logic this time? B)

If the point of posting it was to show his intent to return, it's kinda even stupider than before. Any semi-literate traveler knows that a short two-way is often cheaper than a one-way. And Pachter had made quite clear that he wasn't coming back within the term stated in the ticket.
Agreed, the fact he had a return ticket proved nothing, the fact they published that doesn't prove anything either except that TELAM tried to discredit his claims.

If you can't read in Spanish and won't even try to follow other sources I present we are both wasting our time, nevertheless Nisman cowardly shot himself and the truth will eventually be known.

P.S. I'm not Bajo_cero2, I assume clones aren't allowed in this forum and admins can verify our IPs easily, plus if you pay attention you will notice he's in his core a classic argentine gorila while I'm clearly a peronista furioso.
 

notebook.fix

Registered
That Nisman was a criminal is crystal clear and that his findings were BULLSHIT feed by his SIDE boss (Stiuso) is even more obvious. The facts remain the same: HE DIDN'T WORK ALONE BUT IN A SPECIAL TEAM BUILT TO INVESTIGATE THE AMIA BOMBING. If he really had anything, which he didn't, the rest of his team could have presented this imaginary proof that we still haven't seen.
SO there we have it ladies & gents, case shut. Your opinion rings so similar to that of the K government's response a few weeks after the 'corrupt criminal' decides to 'suicide'.
The amount of material available for this case is rich enough for anyone with a good imagination to form any type of hypothesis. I remain open to further evidence & I will not be tempted by the ego into reaching any conclusions. But if you ask me for an opinion I'm more willing to go on the findings under the new government rather than being gullible enough to accept hook line and sinker Aníbal Fernández's Policia Federal's 'Suicidal criminal' theory - a so called 'investigation' conducted by the the very suspects that it implicates - The K government.

To label the victim a 'corrupt criminal' and to denigrate his personal life & reputation is an old K government tactic , it is a desperate old improvised tale regurgitated out to the public at a time when the suspects where IN FULL CONTROL OF ALL THE FORENSICS. Let's see where the new investigations go in the new, more open political & social climate. Argentina deserves that..after all, it is the first time in years since major political figure heads have been arrested & charged such as Boudou, Devido & others etc. I know what horse I'd rather bet on for now.

And my two cents worth for a possible theory on Lagomarsino's role , he was simply a grand opportunity that 'fell in their laps' for those who wanted Nisman 'quiet'.
 

Huey Long

Registered
notebook.fix: I'm not going to post any more sources proving him to be corrupt, if you think dying (or being murderer as you prefer to think) makes you a saint or forbids criticism good for you, he still went out with prostitutes (and had ties with the arrested VIP pimp), he still was at the US embassy's service (WikiLeaks has written proof, hard to go against) and he still had undeclared money abroad, like it or not those are facts you can't deny. Do you want to believe Gendarmeria's investigation of PICTURES OF THE BODY? That's fine, still bullshit carried on by a non experienced force with only one order (CLAIM IT WAS MURDER NO MATTER WHAT), in the end only one autopsy was done and it was done by the Supreme Court Cuerpo Medico Forense, not by Devido nor Boudou.


Please post a source of the proof Nisman claimed to have to accuse CFK, I'll be waiting in a very comfortable chair.
 

ben

Registered
A few points.
  • Pachter: I agree that if getting him had been a high priority, he would have never made it to the airport. He was a nuisance deserving of revenge, but not a prosecutor about to press charges against the president, as such that different tactics and level of attention paid is not surprising.
  • I was waiting for some clarification of what you'd understood from Nisman's sudden return from Europe and how that somehow proves, or even fits with, the suicide theory.
  • I don't really think you are bajo, that was said in jest (though you never know...)
  • Re embassy - against my better judgment, I went ahead and started to read up a bit.
    • Clearly his angle of investigation did turn over the years. The Wikileaks cables you mention, for example, date from 2007-8, and relate to the time when his investigation appeared to be less into the actual suspects of the bombing then into the botched original investigation thereof.
    • The Embassy (and USG) concern was that this was more about the K govt. using the case for a hit on Menem, than on the actual suspects.
    • The apology you reference seems, per the cable, to clearly relate to USG help with the investigation, and the US government's annoyance at Nisman - in their judgment, on K orders - (mis)using their help with investigating the AMIA to attack political opponents with little progress in catching the actual suspects.
  • Once the K govt pivoted and started to play nice® with Iran, that all changed.
In any event, your references to the Embassy cables definitely look an order of magnitude less sinister once you actually read them. This is not a guy conspiring with a foreign country against his, this is a guy explaining himself before a govt. which was providing potentially substantial help with the investigation against charges of using that help for partisan politics, on the K government's orders BTW.

Both context and dating kinda changes everything.

Re Nisman's sexual morality, not going there as it doesn't seem particularly relevant to the question of a) who killed him, b ) whether he deserved to die.

I hope to resist the urge to keep litigating this.
 

notebook.fix

Registered
Peronism, is the socialist cancer that turned a prosperous country into a banana republic. Sure we can blame the Argentine southern European/Italian genetics/DNA for the deeply ingrained cultural/institutional corruption but seven decades of cheap populist peronism has greatly contributed to what Argentina is today, a sad shadow of it's former self. We are not victims, we simply reap what we sowed. But does it have to stay the same?, NO. maybe it's time for a change.
 

Huey Long

Registered
Pachter: I agree that if getting him had been a high priority, he would have never made it to the airport. He was a nuisance deserving of revenge, but not a prosecutor about to press charges against the president, as such that different tactics and level of attention paid is not surprising.
First that's a subtle way of twisting my words, I mentioned the government could have stopped him in the airport and interrogated him afterwards if they wanted to. Second I fail to understand how exactly the K government exacted revenge on Pachter by publishing those harmless details, I might be missing something but I can't see where's the retribution. He had already flown abroad and then he got to read something in a paper? Is that it? Wow, that's harsh.
Different tactics, I see, but you fail to address the charges themselves which were RIDICULOUS and in any case I can't see what they supposedly achieved, as I have already said several times Nisman wasn't a lone wolf, he didn't work by himself in silo. Nisman was part of a team he headed and he was in direct contact with intelligence agencies (local and foreign). His death didn't stop the charges being pressed and nobody would have expected that to be the case.

I was waiting for some clarification of what you'd understood from Nisman's sudden return from Europe and how that somehow proves, or even fits with, the suicide theory.
He left her daughter stranded in Barajas and come back after Stiuso asked him to accuse CFK earlier than they had planned to. The smoking gun Stiuso promised never materialized and that's why he was so reluctant to show his face publicly in congress. BTW the suicide "theory" is the conclusion reached by real experts, the murderer conspiracy theory is just that.

In any event, your references to the Embassy cables definitely look an order of magnitude less sinister once you actually read them. This is not a guy conspiring with a foreign country against his, this is a guy explaining himself before a govt. which was providing potentially substantial help with the investigation against charges of using that help for partisan politics, on the K government's orders BTW.
I'm afraid your conclusion about his change of tune is contradicted by his own TV interview AFTER the memorandum was signed. I never claimed he "conspired" against Argentina but if those leak don't prove to you who he was really working for (he told them what he was going to do before doing it and once he didn't he apologized three times, he corrected a "ruling" after it was rejected by the embassy ... come on) you might have to wait for his foreign accounts movements to be made public.

Re Nisman's sexual morality, not going there as it doesn't seem particularly relevant to the question of a) who killed him, b ) whether he deserved to die.
A) He killed himself B ) There's no death penalty in Argentina so nobody deserves to die ;) His links to a VIP prostitution ring add up to him living a lifestyle he couldn't afford (basically that's the main accusation used against K officers like Boudou for example) except being corrupted.

Thanks, that tells me everything I need to know.
You are more than welcome.

Peronism, is the socialist cancer that turned a prosperous country into a banana republic. Sure we can blame the Argentine southern European/Italian genetics/DNA for the deeply ingrained cultural/institutional corruption but seven decades of cheap populist peronism has greatly contributed to what Argentina is today, a sad shadow of it's former self. We are not victims, we simply reap what we sowed. But does it have to stay the same?, NO. maybe it's time for a change.
I love your list of zonceras :)

First you seem to believe Argentina wasn't a banana republic before PERON became president in 1946 but there are a couple of details you have to ignore to insist on that:

FRAUDE PATRIOTICO. What could be more bananero than having fraudulent elections for around 12 years (1931 - 1943)?
DECADA INFAME. Military coups in Argentina started in 1930 and were followed by rampant corruption (Roca-Runciman agreement, a congressman was murderer in the very same congress, etc.) and illegitimate governments (see above).
THE GREAT DEPRESSION. That's what killed the myth of Argentina being a powerhouse, what could be more bananero that to depend on basically exports of raw materials?

Damn, you should read the classic definition of banana republic, it will ring some bells.


I'm pretty sure you also bought the other well known zoncera del centenario when Argentina was so rich, see above, that's nothing more than a myth, what's the point of yearning a country where a very few were extremely rich and the millions were poor and had no rights? In 1910 Argentine people had never voted in a free election (that only happened for the first time in 1912), in 1919 over 700 workers were murderer in what's known as the "Tragic Week", between 1920 and 1922 approximately 1500 rural workers were murderer in what's known as la "Patagonia Rebelde". Damn peronistas, everything was so rosy before them screwing it everything up eh, from 1890 to 1894 Argentina was in default (less than 20 years before the famous centennial and the last debt was paid in 1906, the whole scheme must sound familiar) and PERON wasn't even born yet!



I'm roughly rounding the months rather than counting days (feel free to do so, it won't change the conclusion):
June 1946 - September 1955 9 1/4 YEARS PERON
October 1955 - May 1973 17 1/2 YEARS MILITARY/PUPPETS
June 1973 - March 1976 2 3/4 YEARS CAMPORA/LASTIRI/PERON/ISABEL
April 1976 - December 1983 7 3/4 YEARS MILITARY
January 1984 - July 1989 5 1/2 YEARS ALFONSIN
August 1989 - December 1999 10 1/2 YEARS MENEM (PSEUDO PERONISTA)
January 2000 - December 2001 2 YEARS DE LA RUINA
January 2002 - May 2003 1 1/2 YEARS R. SAA / DUHALDE
June 2003 - December 2015 12 1/2 YEARS NK/CFK
January 2016 - December 2017 2 YEARS MACRI

Let's recap: 9.25 + 2.75 + 10.5 + 1.5 + 12.5 = 36.5

So it turns out that of those "7 decades of Peronism" around half of the time the government wasn't in peronista's hands (specially during the 18 of proscription were even mentioning the name PERON was a crime) and that's considering Menem as peronista which I won't ever do (plan Bunge & Born, Cavallo, nothing more to add). 23 years of proper Peronism on the last 71 if you ask me.

https://es.wikipedia...ación_Argentina

Time for a change? Who do you think you are kidding? Macri can't change anything regarding corruption, he's from an ITALIAN MAFIA family (oh sorry, I smuggled auto parts while I was Sevel director, oh sorry I didn't know I was a director of these offshore companies, mala mia, te la debo) and has been doing shady deals with the state since for ever. THEIR COMPANY'S DEBT WAS MADE PUBLIC :lol: So the whole country paid for it ... Let's not forget for a minute that without Menem's help Macri would be in jail, he was sentenced twice and only the EXTREMELY CORRUPT Supreme Court of that time avoided him been jailed (that was one the reasons those judges were removed by NK). Let's change by putting in charge the owners of the country that so far have been doing shady deals with the state ... :rolleyes: This change has been tried and tested already, it will be done and dusted again the day they can't refinance their snowballing debt. Since taking charge of the government Macri has greatly increased the deficit and enormously increased the external debt in DOLLARS. There's only one way this "change" is going to end and it will be in tears once again.
 

notebook.fix

Registered
First that's a subtle way of twisting my words, I mentioned the government could have stopped him in the airport and interrogated him afterwards if they wanted to. Second I fail to understand how exactly the K government exacted revenge on Pachter by publishing those harmless details, I might be missing something but I can't see where's the retribution. He had already flown abroad and then he got to read something in a paper? Is that it? Wow, that's harsh.
Different tactics, I see, but you fail to address the charges themselves which were RIDICULOUS and in any case I can't see what they supposedly achieved, as I have already said several times Nisman wasn't a lone wolf, he didn't work by himself in silo. Nisman was part of a team he headed and he was in direct contact with intelligence agencies (local and foreign). His death didn't stop the charges being pressed and nobody would have expected that to be the case.



He left her daughter stranded in Barajas and come back after Stiuso asked him to accuse CFK earlier than they had planned to. The smoking gun Stiuso promised never materialized and that's why he was so reluctant to show his face publicly in congress. BTW the suicide "theory" is the conclusion reached by real experts, the murderer conspiracy theory is just that.



I'm afraid your conclusion about his change of tune is contradicted by his own TV interview AFTER the memorandum was signed. I never claimed he "conspired" against Argentina but if those leak don't prove to you who he was really working for (he told them what he was going to do before doing it and once he didn't he apologized three times, he corrected a "ruling" after it was rejected by the embassy ... come on) you might have to wait for his foreign accounts movements to be made public.



A) He killed himself B ) There's no death penalty in Argentina so nobody deserves to die ;) His links to a VIP prostitution ring add up to him living a lifestyle he couldn't afford (basically that's the main accusation used against K officers like Boudou for example) except being corrupted.



You are more than welcome.



I love your list of zonceras :)

First you seem to believe Argentina wasn't a banana republic before PERON became president in 1946 but there are a couple of details you have to ignore to insist on that:

FRAUDE PATRIOTICO. What could be more bananero than having fraudulent elections for around 12 years (1931 - 1943)?
DECADA INFAME. Military coups in Argentina started in 1930 and were followed by rampant corruption (Roca-Runciman agreement, a congressman was murderer in the very same congress, etc.) and illegitimate governments (see above).
THE GREAT DEPRESSION. That's what killed the myth of Argentina being a powerhouse, what could be more bananero that to depend on basically exports of raw materials?

Damn, you should read the classic definition of banana republic, it will ring some bells.


I'm pretty sure you also bought the other well known zoncera del centenario when Argentina was so rich, see above, that's nothing more than a myth, what's the point of yearning a country where a very few were extremely rich and the millions were poor and had no rights? In 1910 Argentine people had never voted in a free election (that only happened for the first time in 1912), in 1919 over 700 workers were murderer in what's known as the "Tragic Week", between 1920 and 1922 approximately 1500 rural workers were murderer in what's known as la "Patagonia Rebelde". Damn peronistas, everything was so rosy before them screwing it everything up eh, from 1890 to 1894 Argentina was in default (less than 20 years before the famous centennial and the last debt was paid in 1906, the whole scheme must sound familiar) and PERON wasn't even born yet!



I'm roughly rounding the months rather than counting days (feel free to do so, it won't change the conclusion):
June 1946 - September 1955 9 1/4 YEARS PERON
October 1955 - May 1973 17 1/2 YEARS MILITARY/PUPPETS
June 1973 - March 1976 2 3/4 YEARS CAMPORA/LASTIRI/PERON/ISABEL
April 1976 - December 1983 7 3/4 YEARS MILITARY
January 1984 - July 1989 5 1/2 YEARS ALFONSIN
August 1989 - December 1999 10 1/2 YEARS MENEM (PSEUDO PERONISTA)
January 2000 - December 2001 2 YEARS DE LA RUINA
January 2002 - May 2003 1 1/2 YEARS R. SAA / DUHALDE
June 2003 - December 2015 12 1/2 YEARS NK/CFK
January 2016 - December 2017 2 YEARS MACRI

Let's recap: 9.25 + 2.75 + 10.5 + 1.5 + 12.5 = 36.5

So it turns out that of those "7 decades of Peronism" around half of the time the government wasn't in peronista's hands (specially during the 18 of proscription were even mentioning the name PERON was a crime) and that's considering Menem as peronista which I won't ever do (plan Bunge & Born, Cavallo, nothing more to add). 23 years of proper Peronism on the last 71 if you ask me.

https://es.wikipedia...ación_Argentina

Time for a change? Who do you think you are kidding? Macri can't change anything regarding corruption, he's from an ITALIAN MAFIA family (oh sorry, I smuggled auto parts while I was Sevel director, oh sorry I didn't know I was a director of these offshore companies, mala mia, te la debo) and has been doing shady deals with the state since for ever. THEIR COMPANY'S DEBT WAS MADE PUBLIC :lol: So the whole country paid for it ... Let's not forget for a minute that without Menem's help Macri would be in jail, he was sentenced twice and only the EXTREMELY CORRUPT Supreme Court of that time avoided him been jailed (that was one the reasons those judges were removed by NK). Let's change by putting in charge the owners of the country that so far have been doing shady deals with the state ... :rolleyes: This change has been tried and tested already, it will be done and dusted again the day they can't refinance their snowballing debt. Since taking charge of the government Macri has greatly increased the deficit and enormously increased the external debt in DOLLARS. There's only one way this "change" is going to end and it will be in tears once again.
'Zoncera'? What? :)

You don't seem to understand the true inner workings here ha ha ha ...copy and paste all you like but you forget one little detail... during the seven decades the majority in the senate & the congress was always the justicialistas/peronistras. The tactic was always the same, they would temporarily let in opposition parties only for one purpose, to consolidate their power via the route of 'let them get elected but we'll stick palos en la rueda' (obstruct them in both houses) till they get thrown out.. This is old. Do I need to point it out to you? How long have you been in ARgentina?


"Pseudo Peronist" ? Sorry but what's that in your terms? Menem or K , they both run for public office with the backing & under the wing of the old guard Peronists, there's no Pseudo, BUT IT ALWAYS ends with the proclamation "They are not peronists" ..it's old. They are doing it now, "A k is not a Peronist" ha ha ha ...A K is a peronists only when it's convenient? no sir, a peronista is a Peronista. No amount of trying to distance yourself from the party will help you after the crime is committed, and the ARgentine public is now more awake to it than ever before in history.

I get the feeling that I'm arguing with a socialist...why is that?
 

Huey Long

Registered
'Zoncera'? What? :)
You don't know Jauretche's manual? I suggest you talk about Australia politics, you might feel better equipped with basic knowledge hopefully.

You don't seem to understan the true workings here ha ha ha ...copy and paste all you like but you forget one little detail... during the seven decades the majority in the senate & the congress was always the justicialistas/peronistras. The tactic was always the same, they would temporarily let in opposition parties only for one purpose, to consolidate their power via the route of 'let them get elected but we'll stick palos en la rueda' (obstruct them in both houses) till they get thrown out.. This is old. Do I need to point it out to you? How long have you been in ARgentina?
First of all I wrote most of my previous post rather than copy/pasting it so I guess it was too hard for you to read, perhaps you could try https://simple.wikip.../wiki/Main_Page to begin with ;)

So you mean half of the time they were in government and the other obstructing? Have you tried to describe half of the world political systems? You could apply that to Republicans or Democracts without changing a word.

But trying to apply it blindly to Argentina for 70 years in a row? Are you for real? From 1955 to 1973 peronist representatives were either completely absent or a minimum fringe presence, because of yet another detail you seem to ignore THEY WEREN'T EVEN ALLOWED TO RUN. In part Frondizi and Illia were removed from their fragile position of puppets after allowing slightly freer election and losing in key districts. What that meant? The elected representatives never took office ... doh. For long periods there was no freaking congress to begin with: 1955 to 1957, 1962, 1966 to 1973, 1976 to 1984. I've just covered almost 30 years of argentine history where your argument is so weak it's HILARIOUS and PATHETIC. You seem to think the opposition task is to help the government to carry on their objectives ... why didn't you vote for the opposition then? Finally you say they "allowed" Alfonsin or De la Ruina to get elected??? You have absolutely no clue about what you are talking about. On top of this the one time there was a real obstruction was when your beloved representatives made the "Grupo A" and they even blocked the budget. That isn't what's happening now, is it? And in any case you seem to completely ignore the fact the president can circumvent the congress to an important degree with decrees, maybe you weren't aware about Macri's actions regarding the Supreme Court ... maybe you have no clue about the amount of decrees he signed and vetoed (even some Laws passed by their own party) as Jefe de Gobierno.

It's evidently clear I know way more about argentine history than you, I don't know what makes you think I'm not argentine myself.

"Pseudo Peronist" ? Sorry but what's that in your terms? Menem or K , they both run for public office with the backing & under the wing of the old guard Peronists, there's no Pseudo, BUT IT ALWAYS ends with the proclamation "They are not peronists" ..it's old. They are doing it now, "A k is not a Peronist" ha ha ha ...A K is a peronists only when it's convenient? no sir, a peronista is a Peronista. No amount of trying to distance yourself from the party will help you after the crime is committed, and the ARgentine public is now more awake to it than ever before in history.
Bear in mind I still counted his years as peronistas for your own benefit. What matters is what you do when you take office, if you apply free market policies you are against everything PERON said and did so you aren't peronista in my book. The last government was the closest to PERON governments in every aspect (although it didn't go as deep as PERON did in transforming the country, that's why they needed 50 years to destroy PERON's legacy and this time Macri will screw up everything in 4/8 years) so I couldn't care less about what some people might say now.

I get the feeling that I'm arguing with a socialist...why is that?
Ignorance perhaps? Reading difficulties (I have stated my affiliation very clearly)? Have I mentioned the need to suppress the private property of the means of production yet?
 
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