How do I deal with a crazy landlord?

[SaraOR]

My girlfriend and I are moving out from an apt. on the 30th, but we're worried we aren't going to get our deposit back from our crazy landlords.

We have done nothing wrong and the place is spotless. It's much much cleaner than the shape it was when when we rented it, so there really isn't a legal reason they should be able to keep our deposit. But, we're young (and estadounidense) and they're an old couple who seem to think that if they push us around we'll just roll over and take it. They sent us ridiculous unprofessional emails complaining that we use the electricity too much so we're either negligent or abusive. So we're pretty worried that they're going to try to keep our deposit because of the electric bill. We honestly don't use any more electricity than anyone else we know, and we are very environmentally conscious. We always turn things off when we aren't around. Our contract specifies that all of the services were included in the apartment and it doesn't list a limit as to how much we can use monthly...

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with this? What kind of legal rights would we have? I'm considering trying to keep the keys (which are expensive) if they try to keep our deposit, but I'd really rather not do that. I'm also worried they might try to bribe a cop to come in and tell us we aren't entitled to our deposit. It's $500 USD, which is a lot of money to us... Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[SaraSara]

If they use your electric usage as an excuse not to return your deposit, demand to see the actual bills. Electricity is ridiculously cheap here, as it is heavily subsidized by the government. I have a house and keep the outside floodlights on all night, but even so never spend more than twenty dollars a month. Retirees get even lower rates.

Sara

 

[SaraSara]

In total seriousness, Argentines abuse each other constantly. It is part of their culture, it IS what being Argentine is about. Ive never seen so many ruthless and unkind people. Regarding rights, again, this is Argentina, you will have rights once you touch again the soil of the United States. Just think, it could be worse, you could be staying here.

Sorry to hear your experience in Argentina has been so negative. I'm afraid Gringos in general are seen as just moneybags by many of my compatriots.

All I can say is, they behave quite differently among themselves. Shame on us for treating visitors so shabbily.

 

[AlexfromLA]

I would suggest taking pictures of the property. There are usually two sides to every story. Having pictures to show that there are no damages to the property would help you.

Before I purchased my first apartment in Buenos Aires I rented exclusively from agencies. I paid a premium on the rent but I always got my deposit back ( I never broke a contract and I always treated the properties as if they were my own ). I would rather pay a premium than have to deal directly with an Argentine landlord.

As long as you didn't break your contract and you didn't do any damages to the property, you should be fine. If there is an issue with the Electric bill, I would ask to see it. During the summer, the rates go up. The government subsidizes " low consumption " properties and penalizes " high consumption " properties.

If during your stay, you fell under the " high consumption " category, the electric bill would reflect that in writing and the owner would have a valid argument in wanting that reimbursed. If you fell under the " low consumption " category, the electric bill would reflect the discount and the owner would not have an argument.

Hope everything works out for you.

 

[French jurist]

Well, I rather deal with french law but since the Napoleon Code exported here, quite many things are the same.

First, do not feel like a victim : it's a national sport here for LL to keep the deposit.

Second, you can fight back and you have to but in a clever way (keeping the keys = not clever). Of course, those LL think you will be afraid and shut up.

Now, what I would do (not worth for you to hire a lawyer, maybe will AttorneyatBA put some info) :
- The day you have to remit the keys back (try to do it one or two days before the contact's end), you both have to establish & sign a paper stating that everything is in order. Most times, the contract you sign when you enter the flat states that everything is in perfect condition (that's where it's tricky sometimes).
In case your LL and yourself do not agree on the condition of the appartment, do not give back the keys (yet... that's why it's good to anticipate by two days before the end of the contract, since you still have a legal right to be there).
What you have to tell the LL in this case is that since you do not agree, you prefer to have an "escribano publico" come to the appartment for the key's remittance (he will be the impartial source between you two).
Tell him that the costs for this escribano publico are 1500 pesos (that's BS but BS for BS, BS too ! You can find rates around 400/500 pesos searching well) and that the escribano's costs are to be shared 50/50 between you and them.
Probably at this point, that will start to calm them down.

Another way to put the pressure on the LL : if your appartment is in the suburbs (unlikely but well), meaning the provincia, and since a tax (sellado) has to be paid outside of Capital when renting an appartment (it is never paid of course, but it's 0.5% of the total of the contract, including the deposits : the multa/fine doubles what is owed... Can quickly be costly for the LL !).


Now the most tricky part : if you are going back to your country after (??) and your LL knows it, of course he'll try to take advantage of this.
Problem is : even if all of you sign the paper stating that everything is in order, usually the LL has two months to give back the deposits. If he does'nt pay back, good luck in getting the money !
Therefore, I would use their stupid acts as an argument to raise a bit the discussion, in order to say that now you don't trust them anymore and that you want your deposit back the day you give back the keys.


Optional solution (damn effective) : I can come with a girlfriend (not novia, just friend) who lives in a villa and has many kids the day you give back the keys. Telling the owners "it's my deposit back now or it's her with the kids in the appartment" is very persuasive.



In any case :
- Make sure that you both sign a paper stating that everything is in order and that they will repay the deposit.

 

[French jurist]

I would suggest taking pictures of the property. There are usually two sides to every story. Having pictures to show that there are no damages to the property would help you.

Pictures only have a real interest if they are "certificadas" by an escribano.
If they are not, they only are "indicios" or whatever they call them here, not proofs.

 

[French jurist]

Oh yes, and do not be afraid too much of the cop thing. It's not the kind of situation where you could be annoyed by one (at worse, have your Consulate number ready and dial : effective).

 

[French jurist]

And possibly, since you are young, try to have two or three Argentinean friends come the day you have to give back the keys (The possible latin verbal fighting will be more balanced that way)

 

[perry]

I am sorry to hear of these experiences but agree with most that oportunism is something that is common in Buenos Aires . Legal threats and outrageous threats against others is very common as well and this is one of the main reasons very few people invest money into businesses here as sooner or later an employer will sue you even if you are doing everything perfect and paying good wages.

I also had this experience many times when I first moved here and still 6 years later I am angry about it . I remember the first apartment I rented was from this Recoleta cheta who invented some outrageous excuse that her towels were damaged and for this she had to keep 300 us dollars . I remember that she did this with her older sick mother in attendance to make me feel pity for her in case I refused to leave the apartment. Now the towels were lucky if they costed 50 pesos each and the thread count was already paper thin

Defensa Del Consumidor are very good though and they certainly will investigate . Also report her to Afip if she refuses to give your money back as it is undeclared income.

Best of luck.