Poverty fell in the first year of Milei

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Poverty is Argentina is now considered to be at 38,1%. For comparison during the most part of the first two terms of CFK poverty in Argentina sat in a range between 30-40%, while under Macri it decreased to its lowest point since 2000 at 25,7% for a short period of time before reaching 41,7% at the end of the last CFK-Alberto presidency.

The article is just reporting the findings of INDEC, which are also generally supported by various independent studies from universities such as Di Tella.

INDEC: Instituto Nacional de Estadística y Censos de la República Argentina

El Instituto Nacional de Estadística y Censos de la República Argentina INDEC es el organismo que unifica y ejerce todas las actividades estadísticas oficiales
www.indec.gob.ar

www.utdt.edu

La pobreza habría terminado en 2024 por debajo de 37%, impulsada por el descenso de la inflación

Martín González Rozada, codirector de la Maestría en Econometría, fue consultado sobre la tasa de pobreza del segundo semestre de 2024.
www.utdt.edu www.utdt.edu

While a more critical study from UCA also concurs that if taking a more conservative method to measuring it, poverty is "back down" at a similar level as experienced at the end of 2023 while also acknowledging that Argentina still has a structural poverty barrier of 30%-35% that will be difficult to beat without deep labour and social reforms and while not living in poverty, 29% of workers are still considered "working poor".


As if it is any magic that if inflation decreases, poverty also decreases and visa-versa. For those who just don't like the current government, this is surely terrible news that under no circumstances can any good news be believed or welcomed... better let them live in poverty so expats with strong political opinions and limited disposable incomes can eat cake and drink coffee each day while grumbling about how terrible the situation is for Argentines.

Now, none of this is to say that millions of Argentines still don't live in poverty or don't have a hard time keeping up with the cost of living. Villas still keep growing as they have done for decades, and far too many people still need to rummage through trash to earn enough to eat also as they have for decades - these things never went away (and I have personally continued to see them with my own eyes every year over the most decade I have known this country). Argentina and those that make their home here need to face the inescapable reality that it is just another unequal Latin American country with structural poverty. No amount of face-painting or weaponisation of poverty will ever be enough to cover it up or wish it away.
 
antipodean said:
...For those who just don't like the current government, this is surely terrible news that under no circumstances can any good news be believed or welcomed... better let them live in poverty so expats with strong political opinions and limited disposable incomes can eat cake and drink coffee each day while grumbling about how terrible the situation is for Argentines.

Argentina and those that make their home here need to face the inescapable reality that it is just another unequal Latin American country with structural poverty. No amount of face-painting or weaponisation of poverty will ever be enough to cover it up or wish it away.
Click to expand...


Let's not forget the US is also an unequal country with structural poverty. People forget that segregation only ended 61 years ago and banks are still being slapped on the wrist for being caught redlining black communities.

IMO, expats are not bitter about Milei reducing poverty. That's a benefit to everyone. They are bitter about Milei doing the same thing previous "zurdo" administrations have done, ignoring such structural reforms while blowing valuable foreign reserves on short lasting forex interventions to win the next election, bragging about destroying the central bank and the immorality of IMF loans and then begging the IMF to bolster the central bank instead.

I'm pretty sure if you went to the US with all the Argentine pesos you saved up to start a new life and then found out the Trump Administration was actively short-selling your country's pesos to temporarily boost the value of the dollar for political gain you would be pretty pissed as well.

I suppose until Argentines understand that dollars don't cause domestic inflation anymore than Euros cause US inflation, we will still be caught in this ridiculous debate.
 
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Besides the fact that those stats are highly questionable, things don't occur in a vacuum. Why not consider the facts of what happened prior to Milei: Covid and the supply chain crisis as well as a prolonged drought, both of which caused prices to soar, and with it the poverty rate
 
LuckyLuke said:
IMO, expats are not bitter about Milei reducing poverty. That's a benefit to everyone. They are bitter about Milei doing the same thing previous "zurdo" administrations have done, ignoring such structural reforms while blowing valuable foreign reserves on short lasting forex interventions to win the next election, bragging about destroying the central bank and the immorality of IMF loans and then begging the IMF to bolster the central bank instead.
Click to expand...
Some expats are just pissed off that their dollars buy less than before and they have lost a lifestyle privilege that they enjoyed here (yet couldn't hope to enjoy in their home countries...) thanks to artificially "low" prices for those with dollars.

The same expats, with a few exceptions, were deafeningly silent (if not outright defensive) on this forum to the increasing poverty, skyrocketing inflation, lack of structural reforms, mounting debt and loss of foreign reserves to keep the illusion of the currency alive all those years... yet suddenly come out screaming when it even looks as if the same things are being done by someone that politically they don't identify with / identify less with, even if that someone is showing some positive tendencies in their results.
 
antipodean said:
As if it is any magic that if inflation decreases, poverty also decreases and visa-versa. For those who just don't like the current government, this is surely terrible news that under no circumstances can any good news be believed or welcomed... better let them live in poverty so expats with strong political opinions and limited disposable incomes can eat cake and drink coffee each day while grumbling about how terrible the situation is for Argentines.
Click to expand...
I do not understand why it matters if there is not enough cheering and claps from more members of this expat forum. Even worse for you to state that many people here think this is terrible news. That is an incredible leap compared to you just feeling disappointed in people who may still doubt the data reported. This was only reported yesterday. The silence is fine. Does the leader need a parade or some blue ribbon ceremony?

Even if the numbers are reported by the trusted INDEC, yes there still can be some doubt. If all the social workers were fired and social programs permanently shutdown, including the closure of the soup kitchens, how exactly are they surveying the people to determine if they are poor and hungry? Are they knocking on doors, or sending WA questionnaires? Without state supported social workers, did they outsource this data collection to the famous McDuff & Company consulting firm? I know I trust the INDEC math and data analysis, though I’ll take my time to understand the methods they use to collect the raw data.
 
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Ries said:
who you gonna believe- Milei, or your own stinking eyes?
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Sure, we have food prices comparable to Europe/the US, and a minimum wage of $227/month, but everybody knows INDEC stopped lying after Guillermo Moreno left and Milei became president, so now there is absolutely no reason to not believe them!
 
I am happy if inflation has slowed.
I complained about the some of the same things during the Ks, and Macri, as I do now.
It is true that Milei has given me a few new things to complain about.

but my main issues with the Argentine economy/government have remained the same for over a decade-

1- there is no national industrial policy
2- the entire tax structure is designed to protect inherited wealth
3- the post dictatorship Argentina has never accomodated the power vaccum, and it is still based on the Peronist Model

(by Peronist Model, I mean the 4 legged structure he devised in 1950, a precarious compromise between the strong forces at the time-
The Military, The Church, the Oligarchs, and the Unions. This worked for Peron, thru about 1970, allowing industrial growth, a big middle class, and a mix of nationalized and private industry.
Since then, the Military and the Church have lost virtually all their clout, the Unions have been halved in numbers due to the gigantic increase of working en negro, and only the Oligarchs still have political power and financial resources. Hence, the bizarre and regressive tax system, and the incredible concentration of ownership of assets, real estate, businesses, and arable land and wealth in a few hundred households.
Until this changes, and a more equitable system of taxes, tariffs, and an industrial policy that encourages jobs and growth is put in place, nothing will change, no matter who is president.)

Thats been my opinion for 15 years now.
 
www-pagina12-com-ar.translate.goog

"La pobreza está mal medida": Víctor Hugo explicó por qué es engañoso el dato que celebró Milei | El paralelismo con la inflación y por qué el número deja dudas

En su editorial, el periodista y conductor de la 750 analizó los datos de la pobreza durante el segundo semestre de 2024 que dio a conocer el Indec. Por qué cree que podría ser mucho más alto. El rol de la medición de la inflación.
www-pagina12-com-ar.translate.goog www-pagina12-com-ar.translate.goog
The usual Google Translate deal, banner is in Castellano and story will initially appear in that tongue, but wait a few seconds and it will change to English.

"Bragging about yesterday's number is like getting off for a cigarette at a train stop. It's so ephemeral. According to the UCA (University of Catalonia), Cristina Fernández's poverty rate was 28 percent in 2014 .Chequeado estimates that inflation at that time averaged 30 percent . The Scalabrini Ortiz Institute estimated it at 46 percent in 2003 and less than 15 percent in 2014, amid a growing population. In 2013, it was below 13 percentage points.Milei brought poverty to 50-something in the first half of the year and then brought it back to 38. Macri drastically increased it in 2016, using his own figures, but unable to disguise the decline."


Note the above carefully - for poverty in 2014, Scalabrini Ortiz Institute said less than 15%, while UCA said 28%

Figures don't lie, but liars figure.
 
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