Props For Uruguay

[Pensador]

Despite my resent issues I have to say one thing Uruguay has earned and deserves respect for calling a spade a spade and being diplomatic about it.

http://www.buenosair...zuela-democracy

One thing about my friends here they are intelligent, friendly, considerate and educated. They sadly have just been stuck living around some pretty shady characters.

 

[camberiu]

“This should not be an internal affair for Venezuela anymore, other countries have to get involved,”

Nope, that is very much, by definition, a Venezuelan internal affair. The only people who can fix Venezuela are the Venezuelans. It is their country. It is up to them to mobilize and change it. That is what it takes to achieve political maturity as a nation.

 

[Pensador]

“This should not be an internal affair for Venezuela anymore, other countries have to get involved,”

Nope, that is very much, by definition, a Venezuelan internal affair. The only people who can fix Venezuela are the Venezuelans. It is their country. It is up to them to mobilize and change it. That is what it takes to achieve political maturity as a nation.

Agreed but once again if your neighbor is beating the hell out his wife what do you do? Stand by and watch it and do nothing? FYI do not test this around me I know what I would do if you where the guy beating your wife. I hope you have a good dentist cause you are going to need him.

 

[camberiu]

Glad ot hear that you feel so strongly about battered wives. But in regards of Venezuela, you are using a false/inappropriate analogy. We are not talking about an incident of domestic violence between two distinct and sentient individuals. We are talking about the relationship between the state, which is an abstract social construct, and the society that created it.
The reality is that unlike a husband-wife relationship, the disfunctionality of the Venezuelan state is a reflection of the disfunctionality of the Venezuelan society that not only created, but continues to allow it to exist. Any state, including the Venezuelan, can only exist through the consent (or indifference) of those that are subjected to it. This is why the whole issue is ultimately a Venezuelan internal affair. This is not a husband-wife battery issue, but an issue of a society that is in itself highly polarized and self-conflicted. They and they alone need to figure this out.

 

[TWB103]

But if the US and others are meddling in the politics of a Venezuela is it still an internal affair for Venezuelans?

 

[Pensador]

Glad ot hear that you feel so strongly about battered wives. But in regards of Venezuela, you are using a false/inappropriate analogy. We are not talking about an incident of domestic violence between two distinct and sentient individuals. We are talking about the relationship between the state, which is an abstract social construct, and the society that created it.
The reality is that unlike a husband-wife relationship, the disfunctionality of the Venezuelan state is a reflection of the disfunctionality of the Venezuelan society that not only created, but continues to allow it to exist. Any state, including the Venezuelan, can only exist through the consent (or indifference) of those that are subjected to it. This is why the whole issue is ultimately a Venezuelan internal affair. This is not a husband-wife battery issue, but an issue of a society that is in itself highly polarized and self-conflicted. They and they alone need to figure this out.

We can agree on many things absolutely but when military police are shooting innocent protestors in the street I think that changes the scope of things. When those who could lead or organize an different political party or movement are just tossed in jail within what is being called a democracy I believe that also changes the scope of things. North Korea is good example of how bad it can it get when dictators take over under false political pretenses.

I think Uruguay realizes that perhaps the politics are shifting in an undesirable direction up there. I also think Uruguay is not afraid to break the ranks of the crony agreement network and raise objections to what are possibly serious issues relating to human rights and the abuse of power. Uruguays position and statements based on the article are not meddling I believe they are raising concerns and questions about the politics of democracy up there of late.

I am sure there is meddling in the circumstances up there and not one government Russian is hovering over the situation as well as others I am sure.

 

[Chet]

The analogy to domestic violence is not so far off, imo. Most police will tell you that getting called into a domestic dispute is one of the most dangerous things they do. Chances really are very high that both will turn on anyone that interferes. I certainly don't have any solutions but an awful lot of the problems in the world seem to stem from one group interfering in the affairs of others.
We could all use a good dose of, MindYourOwnBusiness.

 

[Hybrid Ambassador]

Will China Save Venezuela?. Maduro asking more from Bei Jing.

China has already extended over $50 billion in loans to Venezuela since 2007 in return for guarantees of oil deliveries in the future. With Venezuela in desperate need of financing, Maduro is hoping Beijing will once again open its coffers. However, China has proven reluctant so far to extend more cash to Venezuela beyond the $4 billion cash-for-oil deal President Xi Jinping signed with Maduro during a July visit to Venezuela.
Venezuela’s Nuevo Herald, citing Inter American Trends, said that Maduro was on the cusp of winning at $16 billion loan from China, if Caracas is willing to agree to the “very harsh conditions” set forth by Beijing. According to Inter American Trends, China is once again seeking guarantees of future oil deliveries in exchange for the loan, which could require Venezuela to up its shipments to China by more than 100,000 barrels per day. Venezuela currently exports over 500,000 barrels of oil per day to China, more than half of which already go toward repaying previous loans.
This is not a done deal. Beijing remains reluctant to commit more resources to Venezuela, in part because of the precarious economic situation. As Eurasia Group analyst Risa Grais-Targow told the Wall Street Journal, China “learned a lesson from the initial no-strings-attached loans” made to Venezuela and is unlikely to go down that path again. The death of former President Hugo Chavez, who provided a personal bond between Venezuela and China, has also impacted the bilateral relationship. Still, China has an interest in preventing a Venezuelan default. Even if Beijing does not shell out billions in new loans, it could give Caracas permission to restructure repayment of previous loans, allowing Venezuela to sell more oil instead of shipping it to China according to the original loan terms.
When asked if China would “show support to the Venezuelan government,” Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hong Lei replied that Beijing “understands that the fall of international oil price has exerted an impact on the economy of some countries, including that of Venezuela.” He added, “The two sides enjoy full-fledged and effective cooperation mechanisms in the field of financing. Relevant cooperation between the two countries is running smoothly.”
Maduro will also stop in unspecified OPEC countries, where he will try again to convince fellow OPEC members to agree to cut production in order to shore up prices. A similar attempt last November was unsuccessful. If Maduro’s pleas once again fall on deaf ears, Venezuela’s fate will be largely in Beijing’s hands.