Right Vs Left

Matiasba

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People who work in the private sector are Peronists? It depends, notably on their salary, age, location...

You're aware that on this forum, there probably are many "gringos" registered? Maybe you should distinguish between bad and good gringos?

You might also be aware that gringo is a rather xenophobic, and outdated term. Plus, this is not a word Argentines usually pronounce. It is a Mexican word, mainly, and to use it outside of Mexico, is a bit incorrect.


Sorry, didn try to offend anyone. Gringo its not offensive to me. Really. But I will quit that.
Im talking of multinationals, GREAT american companies. Not the regular gringo that has a pyme or write here.
 

Matiasba

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People who work in the private sector are Peronists? It depends, notably on their salary, age, location...

You're aware that on this forum, there probably are many "gringos" registered? Maybe you should distinguish between bad and good gringos?

You might also be aware that gringo is a rather xenophobic, and outdated term. Plus, this is not a word Argentines usually pronounce. It is a Mexican word, mainly, and to use it outside of Mexico, is a bit incorrect.


Argentines use "gringo" A LOT.
In fact, no only to refer to americans, but foreigners, ususally europeans, ususally blonde, white, caucasic type of people. Even to the italians we call them gringos!
 

antipodean

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Apertura comercial?
interest rate?

you dont think in the last 4 years he did try to move on with another model than 2010 to 2015? to explore posibilities? talking about intentions, we all now how it ended
Mmm. Am going to need some more examples and facts here. What exactly opened? How many Argentine products disappeared from the shelves and factories closed? What were the foreign online shopping sites that people were buying their clothes from and shipping door to door? What were the privatisations that occurred? What were the labour reforms? What were the structural reforms that improved competitiveness?

Whatever it was, the business community pretty much missed it as it barely made a difference.

Talking about unrealised intentions in politics is always rather futile as perhaps even Hitler wanted a brighter and better future full of kittens and rainbows and was going to make everything right again.
 

Matiasba

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"Now, Peronism has, besides this huge bizarre propaganda element, a GREAT dose of authoritarism when in power. One may say its necessary to fight againts that enemy (90% of the media, etc), or to run a country relatively in peace given the power the other part has. "

And Peronism has the same political projects as the dictatorship? Tools like propaganda, authoritarianism, trying to silence the media, using misinformation, sewing the seeds of division and hatred, aggravating external conflicts, creating internal enemies, using "militantes" to do the dirty work, covering up internal crimes, corruption etc. Two wrongs never create a right.


Macri too was authoritarian.
Not less than the Ks.
 

antipodean

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Sorry, didn try to offend anyone. Gringo its not offensive to me. Really. But I will quit that.
Im talking of multinationals, GREAT american companies. Not the regular gringo that has a pyme or write here.

There is an easier way to keep them out or under control according to strategic and social interests. Foreign ownership laws.
Many countries have them and they work well. Hell, even the USA has some. You don't need a whole political movement or revolution to achieve these, especially in 2020.
 

Matiasba

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Um. "Antiperonism are mainly rich, and, for example with Macri, retiree people that watch tv all day. High consumers of the media. That was his base. People that work, people that depend on the local market, are peronists. (Of course, generally talking)."

If "Peronists" are not high consumers of the media, where do they get their information from and how much information do they get to digest?

talking of mainstream media.

they are 90% right wing macristas here.
But hows that even close to compare with nazism?
 

Matiasba

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Mmm. Am going to need some more examples and facts here. What exactly opened? How many Argentine products disappeared from the shelves and factories closed? What were the foreign online shopping sites that people were buying their clothes from and shipping door to door? What were the privatisations that occurred? What were the labour reforms? What were the structural reforms that improved competitiveness?

Whatever it was, the business community pretty much missed it as it barely made a difference.

Talking about unrealised intentions in politics is always rather futile as perhaps even Hitler wanted a brighter and better future full of kittens and rainbows and was going to make everything right again.


he TRIED to do all that. Some of that happened (lots of imports, for instance, 24, 000 pymes closed, unemployement grew, etc), privatized arsat, tried a labour reform, or install it in the media for several months, they did want to go in that direction, they tried to move, to open, search for new markets, investors, people who could believe in Arg, travelled a lot, search for oportunities. All these with a huge charge (supposedly) of having the name Arg associated with the Ks, with the stigma + the agression... in that context, tried to open a lot.
 

Bajo_cero2

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Socialism in Latin America is more linked with independence, sovereignty, development, as oposed to the gringos who come, destroy, and take everything. Its more a reaction to US capitalism than agree with the socialism cause.
You are describing Nationalsocialism.
 

Matiasba

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You are describing Nationalsocialism.
are you insinuating than socialism is nazism?


what i meant is hat latin american lefts are more a reaction to SAQUEO that socialism per se.
and independece, sovereignty, social justice are the flags of peronism.
different the way they took to that, but CFK clearly went in that direction.
 

Ries

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I still maintain that one of the problems with Peronism, no matter which moment in time you decide is "real" peronism, is that the deal that was made between old money, labor unions, the church and the military, is still basically how things are decided. The church, I suppose, has much less power than it did, but the old money families have always had a disproportionate say.

Hence, the statement "argentina is not competitve" when referring to exports, is received belief, but not true. Argentina is not competitive except where the powers that be insist they be allowed to compete.

For instance wine, olive oil, and agricultural products are allowed to export at competitive prices, because the wealthy own those producers. But small PYME type industries have barrier after barrier to export.
I know several small businesses in Argentina who have at various times done well exporting- and the barriers have never been price, or quality, or design- they have always been Argentine government friction on duties, export fees, shipping logistics, and so on. It would be easy enough for the government to still prevent cheap chinese imports IN, but encourage exports OUT. But they dont. The financial system is crippled and outmoded, and many of the results are not doing the slightest to capture unpaid taxes, stop capital flight, or end corruption, but they do make it impossible for Argentine PYMEs to export.

The government should be focusing on Value Added manufacturing, rather than taxing raw material exports. It should be hosting trade expos abroad, and setting up a common Argentine Amazon shipping and distribution hub in, say, New Jersey or Miami- where all small PYMEs can easily export in bulk and one shipping center will sell to the entire USA thru Amazon and Ebay. It would be a bargain, compared to the export income, the jobs, and the general boost to the argentine economy.

There are several sectors that Argentina is very competitive in- textiles, clothing, shoes, leather goods, furniture, jewelry, small scale industrial design housewares- I know people in many of them who have against all odds, exported and made money. But always its an uphill climb, because of Argentine Government hurdles. Thats stupid, and, as I mentioned earlier, those hurdles are far lower for wine or fruits or other products that benefit oligarchs, but employ fewer at lower wages in the provincias.
 
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