she makes me sick already...

Wander

Registered
mjackson1946 said:
She wasnt able to pay or threaten the bodies to applaude there :)
So many quotes to choose from!! Firstly nobody is threatened to applaud her in Argentina. How many people have actually seen Cristina speak live in person?

Quote :"Also don't be bad mouthing my country while you in it spending all our hard earned dollars!" :(

What kind of comment is that? Why can't she? I mean most of the problems in the world are caused by the USA anyway!!! Should everyone just sit back and be stood on. Here she represented the victims of the US's tyrany!! And what she said about the attempted coup in Venezuela in 2002 she had to stop herself there! What a shame, she's a brave woman and the fact she stopped herself definatly proves she's not stupid.
Thought I would leave a link to a documentary that was filmed by some Independent film makers in 2002 during the Coup! pretty amazing. And where does the private jet fly back to at the end?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id--ZFtjR5c

A little annoyed about some of the comments. I've lived here for 16 years and have seen various governments in charge. And at last Argentina has someone who represents the mayority 54%! And I should point out that 46% are not against her!! Because from that 46% who didn't vote her at least 20% would probably do so if there was a vote off between two candidates - Cristina and ?

Sorry if some of you don't like what you read. You can go back to your Clarin now!
 

fifs2

Registered
Sorry if some of you don't like what you read. You can go back to your Clarin now![/quote]


What an infantile argument - what are you 10?. Forget Clarin or any other Argentine media do you think common Argentineans or the rest of the world talks about soaring inflation because they read Clarin or are bullied by the IMF. Clarin miente? Im sure it does but the educated amongst us read broadly and go the supermarket, pay for utilities, healthcare, employee salaries etc so we KNOW what local inflation is even if the Kirchner royals don't.

This was quality viewing (its on Youtube guys for you to enjoy) When she was rambling on about Menkel and Hitler, attempting to flirt with Gavin, adoring the freshness..and begging for more questions..really really cringe worthy. Think the only worst perfromance this year was the Argentine ambassador to UK humiliating herself on UK TV. Reposting for anyone who likes to watch these types of train wrecks ..it all vgets embarassing after 3.5 mins....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkEMS7diuDc
 

Wander

Registered
Quite childish on my side I must admit but I was just following the flow of the previous postings!!! I mean what I read before I posted was pretty immature stuff too!

"i might get a "warm" welcome from AFIP dogs"

"She wasnt able to pay or threaten the bodies to applaude there"

"on the contrary, I support her. She's EVIDENTLY a great dictator and she's actually dictating the best government this country has ever had."

"Pitiful woman. Terrible leader. Arrogant piece of sh#@.
I feel pain and sorrow for my friends trapped in Argentina".

"Also don't be bad mouthing my country while you in it spending all our hard earned dollars"

Just a few quotes from some of the users on this site!
 

fifs2

Registered
Wander said:
Quite childish on my side I must admit but I was just following the flow of the previous postings!!! I mean what I read before I posted was pretty immature stuff too!

"i might get a "warm" welcome from AFIP dogs"

"She wasnt able to pay or threaten the bodies to applaude there"

"on the contrary, I support her. She's EVIDENTLY a great dictator and she's actually dictating the best government this country has ever had."

"Pitiful woman. Terrible leader. Arrogant piece of sh#@.
I feel pain and sorrow for my friends trapped in Argentina".

"Also don't be bad mouthing my country while you in it spending all our hard earned dollars"

Just a few quotes from some of the users on this site!

Well you're right too but some of them were hilarious so if you work on your humourside you'll be a star poster here. Listen all insults aside I think it must be very very hard to support CFK and read vitriol here and in other media. In other parts of the world where such vicious mud slinging occurs (US for example) there's at least "2 dogs in the fight" and it is widely recognized by many expats that the lack of opposition in Argentina is baffling if not ludicrous. We can see CFK may be the best of all current solutions but that doesn't necessarily mean we must idolize her even if her human rights and social plans work is laudable. I honestly ask myself and her supporters - Do you work for a living? Do you go to the supermarket? Do you have healthcare and/or a home to rent/mortgage? How does it feel to see prices climbing so steady because honestly 25% is much more in line with reality than 10%. Is it purely because you've lived through worse times than this that you don't mind it becoming increasingly expensive and insecure in Argentina? I have very few true K supporter friends (left..some have switched radically in the last18 months) so I personally would like to hear how you arent seeing the effects of these increases as expats do..and don't mention Clarin:D
 

AngelinBA

Registered
Actually, Wander, the quote "Also don't be bad mouthing my country while you in it spending all our hard earned dollars" is quite valid.
You don't go to somebody's house with the express purpose of insulting their furnishings, their cooking, their cleaning routine, their household customs. And it's the same at a 'country' level as well.
I'm not from the US and as with a lot of people, I don't agree with a lot of the US politics but it would be very rude of me to go there and tell everybody where I thought they were going wrong! It's especially rude when the head of another country does it, live on international television.
 

nicoenarg

Registered
Wander said:
So many quotes to choose from!! Firstly nobody is threatened to applaud her in Argentina. How many people have actually seen Cristina speak live in person?

Quote :"Also don't be bad mouthing my country while you in it spending all our hard earned dollars!" :(

What kind of comment is that? Why can't she? I mean most of the problems in the world are caused by the USA anyway!!! Should everyone just sit back and be stood on. Here she represented the victims of the US's tyrany!! And what she said about the attempted coup in Venezuela in 2002 she had to stop herself there! What a shame, she's a brave woman and the fact she stopped herself definatly proves she's not stupid.
Thought I would leave a link to a documentary that was filmed by some Independent film makers in 2002 during the Coup! pretty amazing. And where does the private jet fly back to at the end?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id--ZFtjR5c

A little annoyed about some of the comments. I've lived here for 16 years and have seen various governments in charge. And at last Argentina has someone who represents the mayority 54%! And I should point out that 46% are not against her!! Because from that 46% who didn't vote her at least 20% would probably do so if there was a vote off between two candidates - Cristina and ?

Sorry if some of you don't like what you read. You can go back to your Clarin now!
Alright. First off, you seem to have your panties in a twist already so you're not going to like what I have to say. But I really don't care how you feel or whether you're a little annoyed or not as I'm sure you don't care about my feelings either.

So now that we have that out of the way. I just watched the documentary. After watching 17:51 of the so called documentary, I just had to stop. I will maybe continue watching it if I get drunk and have nothing better to do with my life on that day.

Here are the points that I noticed while watching the dreadful 17 minutes of this awfully made documentary (Warning: This might be a long post).

1.Documentary starts with everyone in love with Chavez.

The way any documentary starts and the way they set the stage is a very clear indication of what it is they are trying to tell you.

It is pretty clear what the makers of this documentary want the viewer to notice. That the whole country was in love with Chavez and that there was not a single citizen opposed to him coming to power. Everyone was waving the the Venezuelan flags. Their faces bursting with hope. At last, their Messiah had landed!

If you think I'm exaggerating, watch the first couple of minutes of this documentary.

2.Arguments against neo-liberalism. "They claim that there is an invisible hand that regulates the markets: Its a lie, a lie, a lie a thousand times over."

He's shown giving a speech in which he says what I quoted above. I'm not going to defend or criticize neo-liberalism but that is the argument he used against it. Again, people were shown cheering him on and just being so impressed by him that one is supposed to be left with a feeling of awe after watching this stuff.

Not me, I am a very cynical person. ;)

3. "I've had to withstand international pressure...even if I have to go to the gates of hell to defend the people of Venezuela then so be it. I will defend you come what may."

In all of 17 minutes, this statement, shown to impress, struck me as one of the most dangerous and dictatorial in design. I know people like throwing "Hitler" out whenever they don't like somebody but I will use a quote from Hitler (July 20, 1944) that is no different than what Chavez said above:

"The bomb which was planted by Colonel von Stauffenberg exploded two meters to my right. It seriously injured a number of my colleagues who are very dear to me; one has died. I myself am completely unhurt apart from a few minor skin abrasions, bruises and burns.

I interpret this as confirmation that Providence wishes me to continue my life's mission as I have in the past. Few people can begin to imagine the fate which would have overtaken Germany had the assassination attempt succeeded.

I myself thank Providence and my Creator not for preserving me — my life consists only of worry and work for my People — I thank him only for allowing me to continue to bear this burden of worry, and to carry on my work to the best of my ability.

Once again I take this opportunity, my old comrades in arms, to greet you, joyful that I have once again been spared a fate which, while it held no terror for me personally, would have had terrible consequences for the German People.

I interpret this as a sign from Providence that I must continue my work, and therefore I shall continue it."
One should always be wary of a politician who uses words such as those highlighted above. When a politician presents himself as the one who is there to solve all the people's problems, it should raise alarms. When a politician presents himself as one who has been victimized by the rest of the world ONLY because he stood up for his people, one should be wary.

Of course this tactic works and it works best for people who want to remain in control and when questioned about what they're doing, they can simply say, "But I am only doing this for you! Do you really think I enjoy this fight? No, this is a selfless act on my part so I can give you a better life!"

Hey, who wouldn't be convinced by that?

I've lived under enough dictatorships to know this kind of talk to be both bullsh*t and dangerous.

4. Chavez, democratically elected by a huge majority of the population in 1998. Country's oil meant it was important to the US. But Chavez stood against the free market model IMPOSED on Venezuela by the US.

5. Neo Liberalism polarizes people.

Point 4 and 5 lay down the foundation tell us, the unknowing innocent people of the world, that Chavez is only hated and vilified because he stood against Goliath. Namely the US and neo liberalism that its trying to shove down Venezuela's throat. Again, not saying that none of this is true, just saying that there is no proof presented.

You might say there was proof later. Well it doesn't matter. The introduction is designed to convince you to have a singular opinion and that is, Chavez was and is a victim of the greater system created by the Devil himself, known otherwise as the United States of America.

6. Majority of Chavez's supporters were poor. Representing 80% of the country.

7. New constitution passed in 1999 by referumdum. Chavez sought to make people aware of their rights.

8. Showing the people as if everyone supported him.

9. Chavez had a TV show as part of keeping the promises he made where ANY citizen could phone in and talk to Chavez.

Points 6-9 again try to lay out how popular Chavez is amongst the people. He is then shown as an amazing leader, a father figure whom everyone not only loves but respects. And not for naught either. He is out there, busting his balls to tell people what their rights are! I mean, come on. Such a selfless leader? Who wouldn't love him? Only those that don't want others to be happy and want all the control for themselves. Those dreadful rich white people!

Oh yeah, nice unbiased, indpendent documentary so far.

10. Reasons for Chavez's appeal included him being non-White and he hadn't come through the rich.

11. Chavez's enemies were those who were powerful and who had once controlled the country.

This, I thought was both interesting and overly racist. But let's forget the racist part, because as we all know, if its racism against white people, its not really racism...you know, people of color could NEVER be racist! :rolleyes:

Here the documentary just tries to show that he wasn't one of the elite. He was just some regular brown guy who stumbled upon the military and then stumbled upon the presidency all because he cared for the people. Not because he wanted power or fame. Oh no no, that's a rich, white people thing. I'm brown, and I can guarantee, brown people never want power or never take advantage of others! :rolleyes:

12. Chavez's hands on approach was crucial in his support.

13. Chavez had the support of the troops. Everyone supported him.

14. Documentary shows that Chavez's workers read EVERYONE's letters, no matter how long they are. Then it shows Chavez watching a video and then he goes on about how he and his people don't do enough press conferences. Or get on TV or radio.

The documentary keeps going back to cement this idea in our brains that Chavez is for the people and the people for Chavez. Not a single person was or is ever against his highness. Only the rich, white devils are his enemies.

15. Then it shows bits from opposition channels at the time slandering Chavez.

16. Under Chavez there was total freedom of expression!

17. 5 TV channels controlled by the most powerful media people.

18. Poor Chavez only had state TV and it was a battle but like all battles (the hero) seemed to relish this battle as well.

Points 15-18, the makers of the documentary tried to represent the opposition's arguments fairly. Yeah, it was so fair. The opposition is shown to be saying, "Chavez is crazy about sex" (paraphrased) and "Chavez is mentally unstable" (paraphrased).

Uh, yeah. So that was all the opposition could muster I guess. Cheap attacks. I mean, what else could you say about a saint and a messiah? He is squeaky clean. Gave people TOTAL freedom of expression. Actually, he took it upon himself to inform people of their rights.

There were 5 TV channels owned by powerful white devils with their minions. What did poor Chavez have? A measly state TV. But was a hero like Chavez going to give up? No. He "relished" these battles, like any other battle. Like a gladiator and a god (godiator?) he kept on fighting even when he was down! You gotta love this guy. He was always the underdog.

Around minute 17 Chavez was getting emotional again and telling people about how much he cares about justice and peace and how evil others are, etc. But I lost interest.

I mean, if I wanted to listen to this kind of BS, I would listen to Hitler's speeches.

I gotta be fair though. I am not comparing Chavez and Hitler and saying they're the same in what they carried out. Not even close. All I am pointing at is that dictators usually have the same tools to convince the people that they are who the people have always been waiting for.

And to those who think dictators only come to power through non democratic means, I'd like to remind you that Hitler won the elections fair and square too.

Anyway, I will probably watch the rest of the documentary later when I'm drunk or something. This is all from me about that!

PS: Excuse all the typos, I wrote it on the fly.
 

syngirl

Registered
Wander said:
A little annoyed about some of the comments. I've lived here for 16 years and have seen various governments in charge. And at last Argentina has someone who represents the mayority 54%! And I should point out that 46% are not against her!! Because from that 46% who didn't vote her at least 20% would probably do so if there was a vote off between two candidates - Cristina and ?

Sorry if some of you don't like what you read. You can go back to your Clarin now!
I'm SO SICK of the she represents the "54%" argument from the Pro-K camps, I hear it all the effing time on DDD etc. That was 1 year ago. According to current popularity polls she would not be embraced by those 54% at all today -- she would be lucky to get 30%.

So, to quote one of your lovely Pro-K ministers: Que se meta su 54% en el ...


http://eldiario.com.uy/2012/08/27/cae-popularidad-de-cristina-un-30-en-agosto/
 

BienTeVeo

Registered
ghost said:
I feel pain and sorrow for my friends trapped in Argentina.
When we announced that we were moving to Argentina (lo these many years ago), a skeptical family member said to me, "I would just hate for you to get trapped down there." We brushed it off and went ahead. What could happen? Turns out he was right.

The climate here is toxic, asphyxiating, surreal. CFK & Co. are circling the wagons, lashing out at anyone, anywhere who dares to contradict their fabrications or hold them accountable for their corruption, hypocrisy and incompetence. The rhetoric is ramping up on both sides. This sort of polarization doesn't end well.
 

legilber

Registered
Wander said:
"Also don't be bad mouthing my country while you in it spending all our hard earned dollars"
That's right Wander, I said it..

When she started in on the issues of the US (yes, we have issues in the US, I'm agreeing and no I don't agree with everything the government does. Now lets get over it.) all I could think about was how much it reminded me of my nephews.

You know when you catch them doing something they're not supposed to, and they immediately respond with, "well blah-blah did it too!" That was Kristina.

Maybe she wasn't advised on what the topics were going to be, or maybe she did and just choose not to prepare herself, but I found that her responses were just terrible. They lacked the basic FACTUAL premise.

With each question, she seemed to be more sarcastic (a world leader...), more defensive, and just plain rude. Making fun of some poor grad student because his spanish wasn't perfect when the woman can't even make a full sentence in English. Get off your high horse.

Also, really? Using the world Yankeelandia?!? Just oozing professionalism...

She just seemed like a joke and I hope all the rest of the world leaders look to her as the example of what not to do.
 
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