Statement of Tax Liability in Argentina needed

[desde_Holanda]

Hi all!
In the not so far future I want to make sure that my foreign pension won't be taxed in the origin country (in Europe) before being paid out to me. I am going to live in Argentina and want to be taxed in Argentina on worldwide income. To prevent taxation in my previous European homecountry, I will need to prove to the pension fund which pay out my pension that I am liable for taxes in Argentina. Does anyone have experience with obtaining such kind of statement from Argentine Tax Authorities?
Thanks in advance!

 

[steveinbsas]

Hi all!
In the not so far future I want to make sure that my foreign pension won't be taxed in the origin country (in Europe) before being paid out to me. I am going to live in Argentina and want to be taxed in Argentina on worldwide income. To prevent taxation in my previous European homecountry, I will need to prove to the pension fund which pay out my pension that I am liable for taxes in Argentina. Does anyone have experience with obtaining such kind of statement from Argentine Tax Authorities?
Thanks in advance!

Based on my most recent interaction with AFIP, I doubt that they will be able to provide the desired statement that your foreign pension income is currently taxable in Argentina. Early this month I asked at the closest "Argentine Tax Authority" office (aka:AFIP) about taxation on foreign pensions and I was told that, as of this year, pension income is not subject to taxation in Argentina.

I asked just to be sure I was still not required to declare my monthly pension income as it's below the piso de ganancias (threshold) for paying income taxes in Argentina. If i undestood correctly, the AFIP agent told me that all pension income (public and private/foreign and domestic/regardless of the monthly amount), is currently exempt from taxation in Argentina.

One member of the forum did not believe that the information I shared was correct, but has not yet posted anything that refutes it. I asked two of my Argentine friends about this and they both agreed with what I waa told by AFIP.

One of my friends is a policeman at the nearby naval base and the other is a retired sub-oficial of the Argentine Navy. They both were quite certain about this information, even though I am the only retired foreigner either of them knows.

I will ask at AFIP again, the next time I am near their office. Meanwhile, I was able to find this:

https://www.argentina.gob.ar/sites/default/files/tax_system_in_argentina.pdf

 

[Alby]

Hi all!
In the not so far future I want to make sure that my foreign pension won't be taxed in the origin country (in Europe) before being paid out to me. I am going to live in Argentina and want to be taxed in Argentina on worldwide income. To prevent taxation in my previous European homecountry, I will need to prove to the pension fund which pay out my pension that I am liable for taxes in Argentina. Does anyone have experience with obtaining such kind of statement from Argentine Tax Authorities?
Thanks in advance!

Wouldnt the procedure be to establish with Holanda that under the double tax agreement you longer meet the definition of tax residency in Holanda but instead Argentina? And the statement from the Holanda tax authority to that effect would be the document you present to the Holanda pension fund?

(You may continue to be a Holanda tax resident for some time after you set up here. It depends in Holanda's rules for loss of tax residency. And if that time goes beyond the time you become a tax resident in Argentina (which won't be inmediate, but on the date the Argentine legislation defines), it is the double tax treaty that determines the basis on which Argentina wins the right to tax your pension. If, in facr, the double tax treaty determines that Argentina wins the contest.)

 

[Alby]

To "prevent taxation in [your] previous European country" (Holanda, presumably), you have to organize your financial affairs in such a way that on the date you first meet the definition (under Argentina's ganancias tax legislation) of tax resident in Argentina (a date on which you will almost certainly still meet the definition of tax residency in Holanda) the provisions of the double tax treaty (which will be triggered that same day) determine that it is now Argentina and no longer Holanda that will henceforth tax your pension.

I don't think it's a matter of getting a document from AFIP. It will be a matter, when the time comes, of presenting a document from the Holanda tax authority. Which will only be forthcoming if you have set your affairs up in such a way that, on the day you become an Argentine tax resident, under the double tax agreement both sides agree that Argentina has now won from Holanda the right to tax your pension (and assets).

 

[Alby]

(Apologies for the multiple postings)

It's a complicated matter, but conceptually we can simplify the steps.

1. You need a Holanda accountant to tell you (now) when and in what circumstances a Holanda taxpayer loses Holanda tax residency under Holanda tax legislation.
2. At the same time (i.e., now), you need an Argentine accountant to tell you when and in what circumstances (under Argentina ganancias tax legislation) you will gain Argentine tax residency if you proceed with your current plan and timeline.
3. You then need to match the two answers up. When you do, you will almost certainly discover that on a particular day in the future, you are going to be a tax resident of both countries simultaneously.
4. As a tax treaty is in place between Argentina and Holanda to cater precisely for this kind of situation (simultaneously tax resident of both countries), you need your Holanda tax accountant to tell you (now) whether the provisions of the tax treaty (based on your planned or current financial and asset structure, the time to be spent every 365 days in Holanda as compared to in Argentina, and the extent of your personal relationships inside Holanda and inside Argentina) would determine (on that date in the future you become a tax resident of both countries) that henceforth you pay tax in Argentina rather than Holanda. If your current or planned asset and financial structure (and planned time every 365 in each country and extent of personal relationships inside Holanda and inside Argentina) on the date you become a tax resident of both countries mean Holanda will win the fight, you need your Holand tax account to tell you (now) how to start restructuring your financial affairs and assets (and future planned movements between the countries and planned personal relationship inside each country) so that, when the time finally comes, it is Argentina who wins the fight.
5. Once the time has come, and due to your good planning and (if necessary) restructuring, Argentina has (like the World Cup semi-final) won the fight, that will be when you approach your pension fund to stop taxing you in Holanda. And you will, presumably, do that not with a document from AFIP but with a document from the Holanda tax authority.

(I'm no tax expert or accountant, but I know a bit about this stuff because my situation is similar: pension income from overseas and a double tax treaty in play determining where I declare pension income and pay tax.)

 

[desde_Holanda]

Thanks Steve and Alby!

The Tax Treaty says the following:
1. Employee/employer pension from Holland will be taxed in the country of residence (which will be Argentina). (note: Argentina taxes 'worldwide income')
2. State pension is taxed in Holland, even though my country of residence will be Argentina. To prevent double taxation, the paid tax in Holland will be deducted in Argentina, as long as the amount is not higher than the originally calculated income tax in Argentina (including this state pension).

Based on the resident criterium, I expect to be Argentine tax payer starting the fiscal year 2025, which is also when I want to start my private pension to pay out. So my question is about 1, employee/employer pension. My Dutch private pension fund will need proof from the tax authorities in Argentina that I will be in the picture regarding Income Tax. Only if I come up with such an (Argentine!) paper, it will pay out my pension without holding back Dutch tax.

 

[antipodean]

Certificar residencia fiscal en la Argentina

Solicitar certificado de residencia fiscal ante AFIP, mediante transferencia electrónica de datos.

www.argentina.gob.ar

 

[desde_Holanda]

Certificar residencia fiscal en la Argentina

Solicitar certificado de residencia fiscal ante AFIP, mediante transferencia electrónica de datos.

www.argentina.gob.ar

Thanks Antipodean! This is exactly what I was looking for!

 

[Alby]

Thanks Steve and Alby!

The Tax Treaty says the following:
1. Employee/employer pension from Holland will be taxed in the country of residence (which will be Argentina). (note: Argentina taxes 'worldwide income')
2. State pension is taxed in Holland, even though my country of residence will be Argentina. To prevent double taxation, the paid tax in Holland will be deducted in Argentina, as long as the amount is not higher than the originally calculated income tax in Argentina (including this state pension).

Is that your reading of the double tax treaty or that of an accountant or tax lawyer? Be very sure. (When I consulted my profesional, he corrected my reading of my tax treaty.)

 

[desde_Holanda]

Is that your reading of the double tax treaty or that of an accountant or tax lawyer? Be very sure. (When I consulted my profesional, he corrected my reading of my tax treaty.)

That's my reading of the tax treaty, yes. But professionally I am very used in reading laws etc. Thanks anyway, I will double check and if I am not sure, will rely on professionals.