Temporary Rental Contract Advice

[King_pair]

Hi, I wondered if anyone had any take on this...

A woman who I've been teaching a class for (she owns a small academy) has offered me a small depto in Palermo at a knockdown prie. I need to find a place and this would be perfect, but she's being a bit odd about one aspect of the contract. She claims that it means I'm not allowed any visitors overnight, and I'm pretty sure that's BS. This is the relevant clause in the contract:

"-18o) Las personas que podrán habitar el departamento aparte del firmante son:.... . NO SE PERMITE A NADIE MÁS EN EL DEPARTAMENTO."

...which she claims is needed because of the following clause in the comunidad regulations:

"Todas las unidades seràn destinadas exclusivamente a la vivienda honesta y decorosa. Queda prohibido a los propietarios / ocupantes a cualquier titulo de los sectores de propiedad exclusiva, destinar las unidades a cualquier actividad contraria a la tranquilidad, decencia, decoro, moralidad y buen nombre del edificio, asi como el arriendo o subarriendo parcial de las habitaciones que componen las unidades o destinar las mismas a pensiòn y/o alojamiento de pasajeros, asi como instalar industrias y/o negocios...."

To clarify, I'm not looking to sublet or run an airbnb or a squat or a brothel, I'm talking about having a friend or relative to stay for a week or to now and then. I have explained this, but she' adamant that nobody other than me is allowed to sleep in the flat. The only bit I can find that touches on this is "o destinar las mismas a pensiòn y/o alojamiento de pasajeros" - but that surely doesn't proclude guests, does it?

Has anyone else experienced similar problems with contracts, or have I just got an odd landlady?

 

[nikad]

The text has nothing to do with having a friend over, or a relative visiting. It has to do with prostitutes, running a business there, subletting, etc. Get that apartment and enjoy it

And if this is stated in the community rules, she is not being odd, she is doing the right thing

 

[ElQueso]

Yeah there's a big problem with tourists bringing in prostitutes into temporary apartments, or coming back from a binge and waking everyone up, etc. I know a guy who owns a big apartment for temporary rental near Callao and Guido and he has big problems with the local consortium. They didn't have a "morals" clause in their building by-laws but they tried to fine him 2000 pesos a month anyway. Guy across the hall kept peeing in the hallway and blaming it on guests at the apartment (the owner planted a hidden camera and caught the guy in the act). And so on. I can't blame the people in the building too much - too many people in the city like to party hard all night and almost every day, but there should be quiet at home. Tourist apartments can be quite noisy for people who live there.

I agree with Nikad that they are trying to keep things tranquil and decent. However, you could end up causing the woman problems if someone complains. And I'm not talking about noise, but simply the fact that a temporary apartment is always a target in a building where the residents have decided that it is a problem (whether actual problems have been previously or will be encountered or not).

It's a tough call for me. You might be alright, even explaining to occupants when you have someone over that the person staying is a relative or friend and you may not have any problems. But you will need to be prepared to damage your relationship with the owner if you do bring someone in to sleep there.

And I don't know how the occupants might react, giving you possible problems directly (although probably anonymously). I have a friend who has a 500 square meter house near Paraguay and Uruguay. We have a dinner there many Friday evenings. There is a small patio out back on the ground floor, surrounded by walls up to the second of three floors. Neighbors have taken exception to our sometimes loud conversations (but we are always finished before 1:00 am and usually by 12:00 am) and have thrown eggs at us. What cracks me up is all the other noise which is often louder than us...

 

[King_pair]

The text has nothing to do with having a friend over, or a relative visiting. It has to do with prostitutes, running a business there, subletting, etc. Get that apartment and enjoy it

And if this is stated in the community rules, she is not being odd, she is doing the right thing

Right - that's what I thought... but we've had conversations about the idea of a relative visiting, and she's adamant that this means they can't. So in that respect I think she's being incredibly odd, or at the very least over-cautious.

 

[King_pair]

Yeah there's a big problem with tourists bringing in prostitutes into temporary apartments, or coming back from a binge and waking everyone up, etc. I know a guy who owns a big apartment for temporary rental near Callao and Guido and he has big problems with the local consortium. They didn't have a "morals" clause in their building by-laws but they tried to fine him 2000 pesos a month anyway. Guy across the hall kept peeing in the hallway and blaming it on guests at the apartment (the owner planted a hidden camera and caught the guy in the act). And so on. I can't blame the people in the building too much - too many people in the city like to party hard all night and almost every day, but there should be quiet at home. Tourist apartments can be quite noisy for people who live there.

I agree with Nikad that they are trying to keep things tranquil and decent. However, you could end up causing the woman problems if someone complains. And I'm not talking about noise, but simply the fact that a temporary apartment is always a target in a building where the residents have decided that it is a problem (whether actual problems have been previously or will be encountered or not).

It's a tough call for me. You might be alright, even explaining to occupants when you have someone over that the person staying is a relative or friend and you may not have any problems. But you will need to be prepared to damage your relationship with the owner if you do bring someone in to sleep there.

And I don't know how the occupants might react, giving you possible problems directly (although probably anonymously). I have a friend who has a 500 square meter house near Paraguay and Uruguay. We have a dinner there many Friday evenings. There is a small patio out back on the ground floor, surrounded by walls up to the second of three floors. Neighbors have taken exception to our sometimes loud conversations (but we are always finished before 1:00 am and usually by 12:00 am) and have thrown eggs at us. What cracks me up is all the other noise which is often louder than us...

The thing is, I'm looking to live there for 18 months, not as a temporary lease. But she explained that if you're non-dom this is the only way of putting a contract through. Does that sound correct?

 

[Tilda]

Maybe you can ask her to amend it to say that she (or the community group in the building) has to approve the stay of a family member or friend. That would mean that you would have to supply her or the group with a name and time period in advance. To the community group it would have to be at the monthly meeting.

I don't know if you want to go down this path though, almost everyone who has ever owned an apartment in a building does just about anything in their power to avoid those meetings. Community groups are not a very friendly bunch in general.

 

[Meri]

My friend just rented a room in a house with the same situation. The owner of the house is really sweet and likable but she has the same no friends over rule. She said otherwise it would turn into more of a hostel and she doesn't want that….So this type of arrangement definitely exists (although it wouldn't be my cup of tea!)

 

[ElQueso]

The thing is, I'm looking to live there for 18 months, not as a temporary lease. But she explained that if you're non-dom this is the only way of putting a contract through. Does that sound correct?

Not sure what you mean by non-dom. Sorry if I'm being dense and it's just not coming through.

There are no 18 month long term leases. Leases are controlled by law and you can't have a contract that is contrary to the law. You can add things that aren't against the law and not in the contract, but the law specifies a 24 month term, and penalties for not completing. You could probably get the owner to agree between you that she will let you leave at the end of 18 months.

The owner may also be doing 3, 6-month short-term leases, which I think a lot of people do without realizing that after the first year the contract automatically converts to long term no matter what you've actually signed.

As far as a rental contract (long term or short term), it doesn't matter what your residency status is (if that's what you meant by non-dom?). She may be saying that because of the fact that it is hard to get a garantia for a long term lease if you haven't been here a while to make contacts, but even then, the garantia isn't required by law, owners use it because it protects their property from squatters who don't pay rent.

 

[lucha54]

But if she's renting you the entire place you should be able to have guests, especially short visits from abroad. This isn't a situation where you'd find someone to rent out the living room, or have a freeloader visiting friend crashing with you for months on end and have no obligation or responsibility...

 

[Crema Americana]

Sounds strict and unreasonable. I would rent it and have the family over - I doubt the neighbors would even notice or complain as long as your family isn't loud or a bother to them.

Is there a building president or someone in charge there you could ask about the rules? I suppose I would try to get to the bottom of whether it's the owner that doesn't want you to have guests (and just using the clause as an excuse) or if she genuinely fears getting in trouble with the comunidad.