The $5 peso bill is being replaced by the $5 peso coin

I'll be more than happy to alert you as to when the best time is to hand search my garbage bin.
I'll have one of my minions dumpster dive as I keep my hands clean these days just spending all that I have saved.
 
Second, penny production is financed by all of us Americans who pay taxes, so to discard a penny is to discard shared taxpayer resources. In other words, we have all paid for it - what gives any one person the right to discard it, never to be used again?

Maybe, oh I don’t know, having come into legal ownership of that penny? Does the fact that it was made using shared resources mean that my money now belongs to everyone?
There are a lot of things, the discarding of which one may wish to criminalize, or at least mount a strong moral(istic) argument against.
Where do you suggest drawing the line? Mattresses? Books? Dinner leftovers, if still edible?
I thought the idea of private property means that subject to narrow limitations, you can do with your property as you please. What have I been missing?
In a system that respects private property, the response to people throwing something out en masse is perhaps to reevaluate the point of making it - at taxpayer expense - in the first place. To have to lecture about how it is immoral and possibly illegal strikes me as - dare I say it? - something decidedly other than American.

So, where do you stop next? Throwing out nickles as they are only 5 cents? Maybe toss those pesky dimes as they're so small it's easy to loose them?

Where, indeed, do you draw the line? They used to make half pennies as well - should they keep making those?

Let’s focus on that for a second. The US stopped minting half-cent coins in 1857.
The purchasing power of the smallest remaining coin at the time - one cent - was over 30 times greater than it is today.
The market has spoken regarding their utility, in that almost no machines will accept them. As well as the fact that the sole manufacturer of the coin blanks is having to spend money on lobbying Congress to not abolish the coin.
As a matter of public policy, at what point indeed do we decide that it’s time to move on, rather than moralize about what people ought or ought not to do with their own coins?

P.S. I don’t know about discarding, but it is indeed illegal to melt and/or export pennies and nickels. The reason for this legislation is that such melting was already beginning to be worth it. Does that itself not say it all?

(Both links courtesy of Wikipedia).
 
Maybe, oh I don’t know, having come into legal ownership of that penny? Does the fact that it was made using shared resources mean that my money now belongs to everyone?
There are a lot of things, the discarding of which one may wish to criminalize, or at least mount a strong moral(istic) argument against.
Where do you suggest drawing the line? Mattresses? Books? Dinner leftovers, if still edible?
I thought the idea of private property means that subject to narrow limitations, you can do with your property as you please. What have I been missing?
In a system that respects private property, the response to people throwing something out en masse is perhaps to reevaluate the point of making it - at taxpayer expense - in the first place. To have to lecture about how it is immoral and possibly illegal strikes me as - dare I say it? - something decidedly other than American.



Where, indeed, do you draw the line? They used to make half pennies as well - should they keep making those?

Let’s focus on that for a second. The US stopped minting half-cent coins in 1857.
The purchasing power of the smallest remaining coin at the time - one cent - was over 30 times greater than it is today.
The market has spoken regarding their utility, in that almost no machines will accept them. As well as the fact that the sole manufacturer of the coin blanks is having to spend money on lobbying Congress to not abolish the coin.
As a matter of public policy, at what point indeed do we decide that it’s time to move on, rather than moralize about what people ought or ought not to do with their own coins?

P.S. I don’t know about discarding, but it is indeed illegal to melt and/or export pennies and nickels. The reason for this legislation is that such melting was already beginning to be worth it. Does that itself not say it all?

(Both links courtesy of Wikipedia).

Actually, it was a massive mistake to stop minting the 1/2 penny in 1857.

I just looked on ebay and they are selling for anything up to 45,000 US each!

If only they'd kept them all in circulation the USA wouldn't have to worry about deficits and the national debt, they could probably pay off the whole 16.7 trillion in 1/2 pennies!

Who's the smart one now, eh! :p

 
Maybe, oh I don’t know, having come into legal ownership of that penny? Does the fact that it was made using shared resources mean that my money now belongs to everyone?
There are a lot of things, the discarding of which one may wish to criminalize, or at least mount a strong moral(istic) argument against.
Where do you suggest drawing the line? Mattresses? Books? Dinner leftovers, if still edible?
I thought the idea of private property means that subject to narrow limitations, you can do with your property as you please. What have I been missing?
In a system that respects private property, the response to people throwing something out en masse is perhaps to reevaluate the point of making it - at taxpayer expense - in the first place. To have to lecture about how it is immoral and possibly illegal strikes me as - dare I say it? - something decidedly other than American.



Where, indeed, do you draw the line? They used to make half pennies as well - should they keep making those?

Let’s focus on that for a second. The US stopped minting half-cent coins in 1857.
The purchasing power of the smallest remaining coin at the time - one cent - was over 30 times greater than it is today.
The market has spoken regarding their utility, in that almost no machines will accept them. As well as the fact that the sole manufacturer of the coin blanks is having to spend money on lobbying Congress to not abolish the coin.
As a matter of public policy, at what point indeed do we decide that it’s time to move on, rather than moralize about what people ought or ought not to do with their own coins?

P.S. I don’t know about discarding, but it is indeed illegal to melt and/or export pennies and nickels. The reason for this legislation is that such melting was already beginning to be worth it. Does that itself not say it all?

(Both links courtesy of Wikipedia).
Your first sentence/question belies a misunderstanding. Your second sentence/question indicates further confusion.

Let's say Ben wants to go big-pimpin and buy himself a new Mercedes-Benz in the US. He goes to a dealership and pays $100,000 in cash for a new Benzo for $99,900. He pays in $1,000 bills, so at the end of the transaction, the dealer gives Ben the keys to a new Benzo, a receipt for the purchase and a $100 bill. The receipt is a legal document that is admissible in any court of law, proving that Ben legitimately paid $99,900 for a Benzo with serial number 235098430983049830. Ben is the new owner of the Benzo; the receipt proves that.

Interestingly, Ben receives no receipt for the $100 bill. The transaction produces no document that indicates Ben received US legal tender $100 with serial number 304938403. Instead, Ben puts the $100 bill in his wallet and that part of the transaction is unreported and anonymous. When Ben fills his Benzo up with gas for $100, the gas station will not file a receipt noting that it received US legal tender $100 with serial number 304938403. Ben will receive a receipt for the gas - but the merchant will not record receipt of the $100 with serial number 304938403.

See the difference? Let's take the example farther.

If Ben wants to, he can take his new Benzo to the scrapyard and have it crushed and recycled, waiving his right to the scrap value - thereby turning a new Benzo that was recently valued at $99,900 into $0. There is no law against this. The Benzo is Ben's private property - he has a receipt to prove it. Contrarily, Ben cannot take the $100 bill and burn it. This would be a violation of federal US law, punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

Why?

The Benzo is private property. The $100 US bill is not - it's rightful owner is the US Treasury - which effectively means all US taxpayers. Currency is a shared national resource, like Yellowstone National Park. It is conceived, produced and circulated by the US Treasury for the benefit of commerce. When you carry US currency, you hold a store of value, the physical manifestation of which is provided as a service by the US government. The US government spends hundreds of millions of dollars annually in taxpayer money managing the currency system in the US. Therefore, to destroy currency is to destroy a physical good that you do not own. It is like destroying a sign at Yellowstone; it is destroying a physical asset which has been paid for and belongs to all US taxpayers.

This is why throwing out pennies is both immoral and ignorant. It is an arbitrary decision made by an ignorant and selfish person, and it has a negative effect on the US and all its citizens. It is like throwing away a library book - it removes a public asset from circulation (although if that book was written by Bernie Sanders, this would be a national service).

The US Mint will likely one day recall pennies and melt them down, using the metal for some productive purpose. Perhaps the country will be at war and the metals will be direly needed. This happened in WWII and it can happen again. Regardless - currency is a public good that circulates for the benefit of smooth economic function. No individual has the right - neither legal nor moral - to discard this shared national resource. This is why I labelled such an act "unamerican." It harms all Americans.
 
Dear Supreme Leader:

Long live Big Brother !

Signed,
serial number 304938403
 
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Actually, it was a massive mistake to stop minting the 1/2 penny in 1857.

I just looked on ebay and they are selling for anything up to 45,000 US each!

If only they'd kept them all in circulation the USA wouldn't have to worry about deficits and the national debt, they could probably pay off the whole 16.7 trillion in 1/2 pennies!

Who's the smart one now, eh! :p


By this logic, the penny clearly needs to be retired immediately!

In a short century or two, the value of the 130-230 billion pennies in circulation would obviously be double that of the half penny - say, 90,000 each. There’s your national debt!

Again, follow the example of “C” ’eh, “N” ’eh, “D” ’eh!
 
By this logic, the penny clearly needs to be retired immediately!

In a short century or two, the value of the 130-230 billion pennies in circulation would obviously be double that of the half penny - say, 90,000 each. There’s your national debt!

Again, follow the example of “C” ’eh, “N” ’eh, “D” ’eh!

Exactly !!!

;P
 
Your first sentence/question belies a misunderstanding. Your second sentence/question indicates further confusion.

Let's say Ben wants to go big-pimpin and buy himself a new Mercedes-Benz in the US. He goes to a dealership and pays $100,000 in cash for a new Benzo for $99,900. He pays in $1,000 bills, so at the end of the transaction, the dealer gives Ben the keys to a new Benzo, a receipt for the purchase and a $100 bill. The receipt is a legal document that is admissible in any court of law, proving that Ben legitimately paid $99,900 for a Benzo with serial number 235098430983049830. Ben is the new owner of the Benzo; the receipt proves that.

Interestingly, Ben receives no receipt for the $100 bill. The transaction produces no document that indicates Ben received US legal tender $100 with serial number 304938403. Instead, Ben puts the $100 bill in his wallet and that part of the transaction is unreported and anonymous. When Ben fills his Benzo up with gas for $100, the gas station will not file a receipt noting that it received US legal tender $100 with serial number 304938403. Ben will receive a receipt for the gas - but the merchant will not record receipt of the $100 with serial number 304938403.

See the difference? Let's take the example farther.

If Ben wants to, he can take his new Benzo to the scrapyard and have it crushed and recycled, waiving his right to the scrap value - thereby turning a new Benzo that was recently valued at $99,900 into $0. There is no law against this. The Benzo is Ben's private property - he has a receipt to prove it. Contrarily, Ben cannot take the $100 bill and burn it. This would be a violation of federal US law, punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

Why?

The Benzo is private property. The $100 US bill is not - it's rightful owner is the US Treasury - which effectively means all US taxpayers. Currency is a shared national resource, like Yellowstone National Park. It is conceived, produced and circulated by the US Treasury for the benefit of commerce. When you carry US currency, you hold a store of value, the physical manifestation of which is provided as a service by the US government. The US government spends hundreds of millions of dollars annually in taxpayer money managing the currency system in the US. Therefore, to destroy currency is to destroy a physical good that you do not own. It is like destroying a sign at Yellowstone; it is destroying a physical asset which has been paid for and belongs to all US taxpayers.

This is why throwing out pennies is both immoral and ignorant. It is an arbitrary decision made by an ignorant and selfish person, and it has a negative effect on the US and all its citizens. It is like throwing away a library book - it removes a public asset from circulation (although if that book was written by Bernie Sanders, this would be a national service).

The US Mint will likely one day recall pennies and melt them down, using the metal for some productive purpose. Perhaps the country will be at war and the metals will be direly needed. This happened in WWII and it can happen again. Regardless - currency is a public good that circulates for the benefit of smooth economic function. No individual has the right - neither legal nor moral - to discard this shared national resource. This is why I labelled such an act "unamerican." It harms all Americans.

Your point regarding ownership of currency is well-taken. I do think you take it too far, though.

I myself acknowledged that melting currency was clearly illegal. And while that in itself does not mean I don’t own my money - Congress could surely pass a law restricting the ways in which I can dispose of that Benz you’d so kindly gifted me - it still does mean something.

But the government’s control over that currency is limited. As it must be, or it would not be a reliable means of exchange.

Can the government order me to simply hand over my currency? Of course not.
How about ordering me to hand over all my pennies in exchange for nickels? Dunno.
Can the government tell stores in which denominations they have to give change? Perhaps, but it would be a stupid law, an intrusive one, and certainly not in the traditions of the United States.

My basic point is this. Regardless of the legal/and or moral propriety of throwing away my pennies, or keeping them in a jar (is that, too, un-American? Because then a damn lot of Americans have just been deemed un-American), once this becomes a thing people do, because they no longer care for the currency, a response in the American tradition would be to adjust government behavior, not insist the people alter theirs.
 
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