The economic future from Argentina

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sergio

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I am sorry, I forgot to comment on your reference to the Colon and libraries. The Metropolitan Opera is a far superior company than the Colon. It is one of a handful of leading opera companies in the world. Even its neighbor, the New York City Opera, can be considered more than favorably compared to the Colon. I was referring to LENDING libraries.
 

bf4

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All right, I agree I forgot Philly, which has as well a well known museum that you didn't mention, (Philadelphia Museum of Art which is home to Van Gogh's Sunflowers and Cezanne's Large Bathers, Picasso, Maigritte, Duchamp, Chirico, Miro, Mondrian, Pollock, Kandinsky's works of art-I travelled to PA just for its visit), so let's say, that DC (mostly due to its National Gallery), Philadelphia, New York (Moma, Metrop., Frick Collection) and Chicago (Chicago's Symphony) is all that one of the biggest and most developed world-wide countries has to offer? (Culturally speaking) Let's add that the rapid growing cities in the south (which are prone to become the largest by the statistics specially if the mexican immigration continues at this pace) have no cultural offer whatsoever. Even if you take any tiny european village (let's say Santiago de Compostela, Carcassone, Lucca) the difference is such that you can't speak on equal terms of european and american cities. USA stands for consumption, malls, and dvds.
If we speak of attractions, that's a different point, but I don't think that Ghirardelli Square, or Pier "21"-was it?- stand for "culture"? Or for the same token, the sequoias or the well known and boring (to death) Alcatraz prison tour....very very pretty but that's not what I was speaking about. When it comes then to attractions, I could post 1001 argentine attractions but I believe and I guess that you already know that was not my point. Now, the question goes...is SF a great cultural pole because of an acceptable opera house? I wouldn't say so. Or for the case LA due to a tycoon's private collection? (Paul Getty's Museum). A city of 9,935,475 souls(2005 estimate) with one "well known" private museum......... I wouldn't say (and I suppose you agree) that touring Rodeo Street or Beverly Hills can be called "culture"
Good Night and Good Luck!
 

sergio

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"one of the nation’s leading art museums: the Philadelphia Museum..."You missed this in my post. As I said, New York is the great magnet. It attracts talented people from everywhere in the world and has become a truly international cultural center. There are a number of other cities in the US that also have impressive cultural offerings on an international scale. I mentioned a few places. There are others. Every major city in the US has a good or excellent orchestra - even Naples, Florida which also has a beautiful concert hall/cultural complex. Miami has a major new performing arts complex. Regional theatre is growing all over the country and is often excellent. It was never my intention to draw comparisons to the capitals of Europe, rather to express a different opinion concerning the statement by the site administrator that there are more cultural offerings here in BA than in the major European or American cities. I think you're changing the direction of the thread.
 

perry

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To talk about culture will take another interesting thread but I fully agree with Bf4 in her comments and observations.
Buenos Aires to me has culture in spades and lets define culture For me it is the level of intellectual stimulation that a city can provide and this one has well surpassed my prior expectations .
Where in the world can you comfortably go to a theatre at 1am and see a play . if you take a look at the weekend papers there are literally 100s of plays on offer .
I have found porteños well educated great conversationists and fluent in languages something I serious missed in most countries I have lived in .
 

bigbadwolf

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"bf4" said:
<snip> so let's say, that DC (mostly due to its National Gallery), Philadelphia, New York (Moma, Metrop., Frick Collection) and Chicago (Chicago's Symphony) is all that one of the biggest and most developed world-wide countries has to offer? (Culturally speaking)
How much more do you want? Or does the bar keep getting raised ever higher just to malign the poor United States?
Let's add that the rapid growing cities in the south (which are prone to become the largest by the statistics specially if the mexican immigration continues at this pace) have no cultural offer whatsoever.
That's the Hispanic influence for you.
Even if you take any tiny european village (let's say Santiago de Compostela, Carcassone, Lucca) the difference is such that you can't speak on equal terms of european and american cities.
No-one is seeking to compare European metropolises with their US counterparts: one would think the exercise would be restricted to the New World: both Argentina and the US date back to roughly the same period. And it's simply not possible to compare one with the other -- any such attempt is risible. One is the heart of worldwide empire, the other a South American backwater. One is able to afford to buy anything and everything it wants, the other perpetually broke. One has philanthropists like Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Carnegie, Mellon, Getty, and a host of others, the other has its rich surreptitiously transferring their wealth abroad (such little faith do they have in their country). To all these proclamations of Argentinian cultural superiority, I'm tempted to say, "The lady doth protest too much."
 

danish_boy

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"bf4" said:
"Maybe and only Maybe, New York, and Chicago. Please don't make us laugh and above all be consistent with facts...........If there is sthg that doesn't abound in USA that is culture in its different forms (Theatres, museums, ) As for libraries, WHO reads in USA? A 1% of the population or even less. And WHAT do they read?
USA Today once a month......? We could go on for ages...... How many languages does an average middle class American citizen speak? One, and with luck they can read it.....
Take any middle class argentinean and you can see the difference."
Do you really think so? I wouldn't be so sure... For one, I highly doubt many Argentines are fluent in other languages... Specially when the majority can't even speak proper Spanish... Have you looked at the Argentine youth lately? It seems you haven't... Otherwise, you wouldn't be talking such nonsense. Have you ever seen Gran Hermano? Well, I think it's a very accurate depiction of what Argentine youth is... The producers did a great job. When it comes to IGNORANCE, IMMATURITY, STUPIDITY and SHALLOWNESS, the average young Argentine has NO rival. But culture... C'mon you must be kidding me. Most Argentines don't even know what a book is. Poor grammar, poor vocabulary, no interest in other countries, no cultural activities, no reading... But Argentina is the place where they stay up till the sun rises... yeah, that's culture... Please, the only thing they do is go to the disco every Saturday, stay out till 6 am and repeat the word "boludo".

 

bf4

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Danish boy,
For how long have you been living in Argentina?
I have lived here for 30 years, maybe you should hang out and meet more people or different people in that way you might be more capable to get several impressions and balance them all out.
What other country has the public that the Feria del Libro has in B.A? Very very few, and USA precisely is not one of them. Among them teens and children, please DO keep hanging out.......
As for Gran Hermano, please check the success and the audience that this invention has had in the UK where it was born:) If you still want to do more research (before speaking more nonsense) double check the audience in the USA, and then we might be able to follow on with this discussion.
Now whether youth hang out till dawn or not, that belongs to national habits. We are latins (just in case you forgot), we have dinner at 10 pm, (not as 6 as in the USA where most restaurants will be closed after 9 in middle sized and not so middle, take DC), have lunch late, and in the small cities people take a nap. Whether you like it or not, that's personal but it has nothing to do with being less or more valuable than habits in...let's say in Denmark. It's the way people here in Argentina live.....you might like it or not, for instance I could never have dinner at 6pm, but if americans love it, that's not sthg. I'm not concerned with nor could I care less.As for boludo, it belongs to youth national slang, do you want me to post how american teens speak?
I'd rather not.
 

lynxsharpeye

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"pericles" said:
Most of Argentinina tourists come from South America and our closest neighbour Brazil has more people than all of Europe combined.
Yes Buenos Aires will have very high rates of inflation and will become unfortunately expensive but at the same rate people in this region will become more wealthier and as most Argentines have rediscovered their own country in the last 5 years internal travel is more popular than ever.
If anyone has tried to book a hotel in Mar De Plata and the coast this summer will have seen the demand far exceeds the supply now.

How can you seriously defend your ideas when you obviously lack any kind of knowledge on the subject? As far as I am aware, Brazil's population stood at 188 million people in 2006, compared to roughly 450 million Europeans. Has anybody explained to you that high inflationary levels are amongst the worst growth scenarios, as they force the central banks to increase interest rates, which in turn limit investment expansion? It seems to me that what you are presenting here is your wish and not a sober judgement backed up by arguments that I could take seriously. Wish on but get ready for some hard setbacks.
 

danish_boy

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bf4,
The fact that big brother (which btw was a DUTCH invention) is also popular in the US and many other countries has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I think you are missing the point... What I meant is the Argentine version does a great job portraying the decadence of Argentine youth. The other day I came across a very interesting article that discussed this issue... It was published in a recent edition of Revista Noticias. You should read it... It was about Gran Hermano and how it reflects what the average young Argentine is. The author calls Argentines between ages 20-30 "Generacion Cero".
Laziness, lack of goals in life, poor language skills (youth national slang, as you so eloquently put it), nonsensical conversations, immaturity, ignorance, etc, etc , etc... In short, a detailed description of Argentine youth. I've lived here for 3 years now and from what I see everyday, I can say the article is really spot-on. How come a native be unaware of these things is beyond me.
 

ramon

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Danish Boy you have taken a small section of youth here and defined all Argentines as what you see in Big Brother.
In actual fact compared to what I see in Big Brother Europe where sex and sleazy behaviour is the norm Argentines are very well behavioured,
I have noticed that many people have come to this forum with very little knowledge of this society and have judged it with a arrogance that is grossly unfair and untrue.
This is not a perfect country and it has poverty social inequality and bad footpaths dogshit and terrible drivers but on the other side it has tremendous scenery excellent food and in Buenos Aires City outstanding nightlife.
I read somewhere in this forum about bookshops and Argentine reading habits and I can tell you that as a citizen here for 4 years that the cultural life is equal to any in the world and the bookshops here are tremendous and numerous . Walk along Avenida Santa Fe and you will see literally dozens of bookshops on every second block there is at least one . One of the most beautiful in the world el Atheneo is located on Callao and Santa Fe . I find this place full night and day with eager readers and buyers as well. Argentines buy a lot of books certainly more per capita than other societies I have lived in .
I do not understand how someone living in small towns of United States Or Europe coould possible judge us without knowing or visiting us.
I feel that this attitude stems from the feeling that Europeans and Americans beleive that South americans are lesser than them which is a form of ingrained snobbery.
 
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