Tips for international wire?

[LuckyLuke]

Howdy folks,

I'm purchasing a property in Neuquen for $160k. The first transfer I need to do is this week for a 10% seña deposit. The remainder is due at the end of the month.

Background: I am a permanent resident here with a DNI and peso bank account at Banco Nacion. I have never wired myself funds, only transfers via WU to my bank account. The USD funds are with Bank of America. I am aware that I can initiate an international wire transfer request using my online login.

The seller is planning to immediately buy an apartment with the proceeds and will need to declare the source of the funds to complete her purchase. Therefore, the seller has no problem receiving 100% of the funds via transfer en blanco. So here are my questions:

Has anybody run into BofA or any third party clearing house withholding an international outgoing wire transfer for further review? I have seen some chatter about BofA flagging incoming international transfers for anti-laundering review but I've never seen an outgoing transfer flagged, I assume since the bank already know where the funds came from by seeing my historical deposit activity.

I can proceed two ways with this purchase:

a) I can open a US dollar account with Banco Nacion, attempt to transfer myself the funds and once received then domestically transfer the funds to the sellers USD account at BBVA.

b) I can wire funds directly to the seller's BBVA USD account from my BofA account.

I'm leaning towards option B to have as few hurdles as possible however I'm worried about the following:

Is there a risk the BRCA will hold the sellers incoming wire for "further review"?

Is there a risk that BBVA will attempt to pesify the incoming wire?

Honestly, I'm not sure how much of this I should be held liable for regarding the purchase. My idea is that once the funds are out of my account it's up to the seller to to do her due diligence on how BBVA will handle her funds and make sure she has all her account requirements in order. But the seller is 71 years old and I'm scared the slightest hiccup will put the transaction into banking purgatory.

I do plan on calling BofA in advance to see if they need any paperwork in advance and I assume the Seller will need to do the same.

If you have any tips for me or for the Seller to make this as smooth as possible, please fire away.

Thanks!

 

[Ries]

do you have a escribano?
you should.
we have done similar transactions, the way it works is your escribano sets up closing at her bank. They have rooms for this. You have your US bank wire the money to her bank, and, during the closing, they bring in the money once the escribano is satisfied all the papers are in order, and the money gets divided up.
Usually its transfered in dollars, rolled into the room in dollars and run thru a counting machine, divided into piles for her, realtors if there are any, past due taxes, fees for transfer, and any other outstanding debts that prevent a clean closing. Especially with older sellers, there are almost always unpaid bills, and they get paid at closing. Sometimes it all takes place in pesos. The rules change all the time, but the money still gets divvied up, in cash.
Then, the final pile gets shoved over to her side of the table.
At that point, you dont have to worry about it anymore. You are done, you own the place.

Sometimes, they pick up the cash and walk out.
When we bought from a couple in their 80s, they had the dollars run the machine, traded for a pile of pesos, those got run thru the machine, then deposited in their account.
Sales happen every day. Escribanos and banks have established systems to make sure the money goes to who it belongs to.
Usually the wire transfer must happen within a certain number of hours of closing, although, who knows what Milei has managed to break...

 

[LuckyLuke]

Howdy Ries,

Thanks for the input. We plan on going with the the Escribano firm that the real estate agent typically works with, since we really don't know any here. I know some might frown on that, but when you don't know anything or anyone, it feels like a crapshoot regardless. Amazingly, the seller is not interested in any USD bills since they need to transfer for their apartment purchase. Which I suppose saves us the whole nightmare of cuevas and financiero commissions. Our associated taxes and fees will be paid in peso bills (via WU transfer to myself) the day of signing. The sellers agent has already been paid in USD bills.

"Sales happen every day. Escribanos and banks have established systems to make sure the money goes to who it belongs to.
Usually the wire transfer must happen within a certain number of hours of closing, although, who knows what Milei has managed to break..."

Thanks, I figure it can't be something that difficult or sales wouldn't be happening at all. I assume they have done this a million times and must know the ins/outs. Still...one has to wonder down here.

 

[xaxage]

Howdy folks,

I'm purchasing a property in Neuquen for $160k. The first transfer I need to do is this week for a 10% seña deposit. The remainder is due at the end of the month.

Background: I am a permanent resident here with a DNI and peso bank account at Banco Nacion. I have never wired myself funds, only transfers via WU to my bank account. The USD funds are with Bank of America. I am aware that I can initiate an international wire transfer request using my online login.

The seller is planning to immediately buy an apartment with the proceeds and will need to declare the source of the funds to complete her purchase. Therefore, the seller has no problem receiving 100% of the funds via transfer en blanco. So here are my questions:

Has anybody run into BofA or any third party clearing house withholding an international outgoing wire transfer for further review? I have seen some chatter about BofA flagging incoming international transfers for anti-laundering review but I've never seen an outgoing transfer flagged, I assume since the bank already know where the funds came from by seeing my historical deposit activity.

I can proceed two ways with this purchase:

a) I can open a US dollar account with Banco Nacion, attempt to transfer myself the funds and once received then domestically transfer the funds to the sellers USD account at BBVA.

b) I can wire funds directly to the seller's BBVA USD account from my BofA account.

I'm leaning towards option B to have as few hurdles as possible however I'm worried about the following:

Is there a risk the BRCA will hold the sellers incoming wire for "further review"?

Is there a risk that BBVA will attempt to pesify the incoming wire?

Honestly, I'm not sure how much of this I should be held liable for regarding the purchase. My idea is that once the funds are out of my account it's up to the seller to to do her due diligence on how BBVA will handle her funds and make sure she has all her account requirements in order. But the seller is 71 years old and I'm scared the slightest hiccup will put the transaction into banking purgatory.

I do plan on calling BofA in advance to see if they need any paperwork in advance and I assume the Seller will need to do the same.

If you have any tips for me or for the Seller to make this as smooth as possible, please fire away.

Thanks!

You can receive up to 24k USD without pesification via Swift. I do that via monotributo but there is also a solution to swift yourself. I have never done it but this is possible. So you need to find 6-8 persons to do that in total

 

[antipodean]

Howdy folks,

I'm purchasing a property in Neuquen for $160k. The first transfer I need to do is this week for a 10% seña deposit. The remainder is due at the end of the month.

Background: I am a permanent resident here with a DNI and peso bank account at Banco Nacion. I have never wired myself funds, only transfers via WU to my bank account. The USD funds are with Bank of America. I am aware that I can initiate an international wire transfer request using my online login.

The seller is planning to immediately buy an apartment with the proceeds and will need to declare the source of the funds to complete her purchase. Therefore, the seller has no problem receiving 100% of the funds via transfer en blanco. So here are my questions:

Has anybody run into BofA or any third party clearing house withholding an international outgoing wire transfer for further review? I have seen some chatter about BofA flagging incoming international transfers for anti-laundering review but I've never seen an outgoing transfer flagged, I assume since the bank already know where the funds came from by seeing my historical deposit activity.

I can proceed two ways with this purchase:

a) I can open a US dollar account with Banco Nacion, attempt to transfer myself the funds and once received then domestically transfer the funds to the sellers USD account at BBVA.

b) I can wire funds directly to the seller's BBVA USD account from my BofA account.

I'm leaning towards option B to have as few hurdles as possible however I'm worried about the following:

Is there a risk the BRCA will hold the sellers incoming wire for "further review"?

Is there a risk that BBVA will attempt to pesify the incoming wire?

Honestly, I'm not sure how much of this I should be held liable for regarding the purchase. My idea is that once the funds are out of my account it's up to the seller to to do her due diligence on how BBVA will handle her funds and make sure she has all her account requirements in order. But the seller is 71 years old and I'm scared the slightest hiccup will put the transaction into banking purgatory.

I do plan on calling BofA in advance to see if they need any paperwork in advance and I assume the Seller will need to do the same.

If you have any tips for me or for the Seller to make this as smooth as possible, please fire away.

Thanks!

With Santander it is very easy and same day.

- Open a Caja de Ahoros in USD (exactly the same name as on your foreign bank account)
- Send yourself USD from your foreign bank account online banking
- You will receive a notification later that day or the next saying Santander has received the instruction to pay you X USD
- You will log on to online banking, complete a questionnaire asking the purpose and origin of the transfer (if it is a transfer from your own account abroad to your own account here it is very quick and easy)
- You may be asked to upload a copy of your DNI front and back
- In a few hours of the next day you will see those USD in your USD caja de ahorros.
- You can then proceed to take the dollars out in cash at the bank branch to buy your property, or
- If you then need pesos to transfer to someone else’s bank account in Argentina, you can then buy pesos at MEP without limits inside your online banking to get them immediately

IF you are doing some kind of dodgy transfer or made an error in the online form to say that you are receiving money for services or from an account in someone else’s name, and as such not eligible to receive USD, you should be given the option to pesify or return to sender.

 

[toast]

I bought and apartment in May this year. I have accounts at BNA, pesos and USD. First I wired from the US bank account the USD to the BNA USD account. It takes up to two weeks to have BNA credit the inbound wire, and a handful of forms to complete and return to BNA that link to getting the inbound wire credited. I made arrangements with my BNA branch to rent a room there for the closing. I also insisted on a bank transfer for the payment to the sellers, which was in the title terms drawn up by the escribana. From the sellers I got a document from their HSBC bank officer, the complete detail CBU, etc, for the transfer to the sellers' account. On the day of the sale, the sellers, escribana, realtors, a translator I paid, and I, met in the room at BNA. I went to the teller with the written request for the transfer from my BNA USD account of the sale price to the sellers' USD account in HSBC. So no cash dollars to the sellers, but I paid cash dollars to the realtors, and escribana. Because the purchase price transfer was entirely ARG bank to ARG bank, the sellers got the funds overnight.

 

[LuckyLuke]

I bought and apartment in May this year. I have accounts at BNA, pesos and USD. First I wired from the US bank account the USD to the BNA USD account. It takes up to two weeks to have BNA credit the inbound wire, and a handful of forms to complete and return to BNA that link to getting the inbound wire credited. I made arrangements with my BNA branch to rent a room there for the closing. I also insisted on a bank transfer for the payment to the sellers, which was in the title terms drawn up by the escribana. From the sellers I got a document from their HSBC bank officer, the complete detail CBU, etc, for the transfer to the sellers' account. On the day of the sale, the sellers, escribana, realtors, a translator I paid, and I, met in the room at BNA. I went to the teller with the written request for the transfer from my BNA USD account of the sale price to the sellers' USD account in HSBC. So no cash dollars to the sellers, but I paid cash dollars to the realtors, and escribana. Because the purchase price transfer was entirely ARG bank to ARG bank, the sellers got the funds overnight.

Great info Toast. Was there a particular reason you did the wire transfer to yourself first instead of directly to the seller? To avoid any credit delays?

 

[LuckyLuke]

With Santander it is very easy and same day.

- Open a Caja de Ahoros in USD (exactly the same name as on your foreign bank account)
- Send yourself USD from your foreign bank account online banking
- You will receive a notification later that day or the next saying Santander has received the instruction to pay you X USD
- You will log on to online banking, complete a questionnaire asking the purpose and origin of the transfer (if it is a transfer from your own account abroad to your own account here it is very quick and easy)
- You may be asked to upload a copy of your DNI front and back
- In a few hours of the next day you will see those USD in your USD caja de ahorros.
- You can then proceed to take the dollars out in cash at the bank branch to buy your property, or
- If you then need pesos to transfer to someone else’s bank account in Argentina, you can then buy pesos at MEP without limits inside your online banking to get them immediately

IF you are doing some kind of dodgy transfer or made an error in the online form to say that you are receiving money for services or from an account in someone else’s name, and as such not eligible to receive USD, you should be given the option to pesify or return to sender.

Interesting, I'll look into this. If it's more complicated (for the seller) to receive USD from the exterior from an account that's not in their name than it is to receive it from domestic bank to domestic bank,

 

[toast]

Interesting, I'll look into this. If it's more complicated (for the seller) to receive USD from the exterior from an account that's not in their name than it is to receive it from domestic bank to domestic bank,

The sellers wanted an ARG bank to ARG bank transfer, not the receipt of a US bank wire. My own experience is that foreign source funds into ARG banks involves delay and forms.

 

[antipodean]

Interesting, I'll look into this. If it's more complicated (for the seller) to receive USD from the exterior from an account that's not in their name than it is to receive it from domestic bank to domestic bank,

I understand that you still can't send dollars directly to someone else's bank account from abroad (without some kind of intermediary service offered by some private investment banks etc) without it going through MULC (e.g., forced pesofication at the official rate) due to capital controls, but interesting to know you can do a domestic USD to USD transfer for this purpose as reported by Toast...

(Perhaps don't use BNA for the first part of the transfer from yourself to yourself, they seem to be more cumbersome than the private banks where everything can be done far quicker and online....)