Argentine women are the only thing I really don't like in Argentina.

[sts7049]

this is a weird thread

 

[antipodean]

I think the OP may be missing Argentine communication styles in general which is to be expected from someone fresh off the boat from a culture like the US which is very different and brash compared to this one.

What he perceives as games and frustration may actually just not yet being able to read between the lines or understand some fundamental cultural norms. Some points to watch out for:

• Paradox is name of the game. While people may be open minded in the bedroom, they are usually "old fashioned" when it comes to values.
  
  
• Building trust is everything. For friends, business or love. Trust only comes with informality, seamlessly endless chit-chat without any direct outcome or objective, and most importantly time.
  
  
• Communication is key and Argentines love to talk/ share. You are expected to respond and make an effort to proactively communicate for the sake of communicating. People here invest a lot of time into other people. Not just in love and dating.
  
  
• People like to use subtle hints in their conversations to let others know what page they are on. Body language, specific vocabulary and the things that are unsaid say a lot. If there is a communication barrier this may be difficult but won't necessarily be forgiven if failing to drop/ receive the hint accordingly. There is even a verb form in Spanish for this subtle form of communication which is without parallel in many other languages and often perceived as "dishonest" or "wishy washy" by English speakers. It's generally seen as rude / pushy to say exactly what you want or what you really think of the other person without having a relationship of trust.
  
  
• Unless they ask directly, many do not like being flat-out ignored/ ignoring or told/ telling in direct terms you are not interested, and they do not like saying "no" directly. If they have no intention of ever seeing you again it is more polite to say "We should go to X place next week!" and leave it silently pending and unconfirmed or met with excuses rather than just saying "I'm not interested". Saving face is important and polite.
  
  
• Teasing out any future plans in an obligation free / light and/ or humorous way to ensure both parties are equally interested is better than skipping to logistics and asking "I pick you up at 9" like some kind of brute. People feel 100% more comfortable if things evolve organically rather than what their calendar or some pushy foreign guy reminds/ obligates them to do.
  
  
• You never become someone's "novix" right away, first you become a "chongx" - like some kind of purgatory or holding cell until the pair can work out where / if it is going anywhere. Exclusivity is not generally expected or delivered, but discretion should be. It's all about playing it tranki. Even as a chongx, you will often be expected to meet friends of your chongx where you will be collectively judged and deemed compatible or not - the social group mentality and fit is very important here and friends talk to each other about every little detail and are generally a part of a persons trust and decision making framework.
  
  
• If they are interested in staying in touch as acquaintances or as friends, then they fully expect to stay in touch - Argentines take friendship very seriously unlike say North Americans who are perceived to have very superficial and short lived friendships. Failing to be both proactive and responsive in communications will be seen as hurtful and offensive. Even if you only meet once in your lives and you had a good onda with the person (even if romantically it was not going anywhere) you are expected to communicate from time to time and stay friendly forever. Argentines are pros at networking - every date that doesn't "go anywhere" is not something to just be thrown away and forgotten.

 

[Lavish Otter]

I think the OP may be missing Argentine communication styles in general which is to be expected from someone fresh off the boat from a culture like the US which is very different and brash compared to this one.

What he perceives as games and frustration may actually just not yet being able to read between the lines or understand some fundamental cultural norms. Some points to watch out for:

• Paradox is name of the game. While people may be open minded in the bedroom, they are usually "old fashioned" when it comes to values.
  
  
• Building trust is everything. For friends, business or love. Trust only comes with informality, seamlessly endless chit-chat without any direct outcome or objective, and most importantly time.
  
  
• Communication is key and Argentines love to talk/ share. You are expected to respond and make an effort to proactively communicate for the sake of communicating. People here invest a lot of time into other people. Not just in love and dating.
  
  
• People like to use subtle hints in their conversations to let others know what page they are on. Body language, specific vocabulary and the things that are unsaid say a lot. If there is a communication barrier this may be difficult but won't necessarily be forgiven if failing to drop/ receive the hint accordingly. There is even a verb form in Spanish for this subtle form of communication which is without parallel in many other languages and often perceived as "dishonest" or "wishy washy" by English speakers. It's generally seen as rude / pushy to say exactly what you want or what you really think of the other person without having a relationship of trust.
  
  
• Unless they ask directly, many do not like being flat-out ignored/ ignoring or told/ telling in direct terms you are not interested, and they do not like saying "no" directly. If they have no intention of ever seeing you again it is more polite to say "We should go to X place next week!" and leave it silently pending and unconfirmed or met with excuses rather than just saying "I'm not interested". Saving face is important and polite.
  
  
• Teasing out any future plans in an obligation free / light and/ or humorous way to ensure both parties are equally interested is better than skipping to logistics and asking "I pick you up at 9" like some kind of brute. People feel 100% more comfortable if things evolve organically rather than what their calendar or some pushy foreign guy reminds/ obligates them to do.
  
  
• You never become someone's "novix" right away, first you become a "chongx" - like some kind of purgatory or holding cell until the pair can work out where / if it is going anywhere. Exclusivity is not generally expected or delivered, but discretion should be. It's all about playing it tranki. Even as a chongx, you will often be expected to meet friends of your chongx where you will be collectively judged and deemed compatible or not - the social group mentality and fit is very important here and friends talk to each other about every little detail and are generally a part of a persons trust and decision making framework.
  
  
• If they are interested in staying in touch as acquaintances or as friends, then they fully expect to stay in touch - Argentines take friendship very seriously unlike say North Americans who are perceived to have very superficial and short lived friendships. Failing to be both proactive and responsive in communications will be seen as hurtful and offensive. Even if you only meet once in your lives and you had a good onda with the person (even if romantically it was not going anywhere) you are expected to communicate from time to time and stay friendly forever. Argentines are pros at networking - every date that doesn't "go anywhere" is not something to just be thrown away and forgotten.

Thanks. This made this bizarre thread worth it.

 

[SecretShopper]

I think the OP may be missing Argentine communication styles in general which is to be expected from someone fresh off the boat from a culture like the US which is very different and brash compared to this one.

What he perceives as games and frustration may actually just not yet being able to read between the lines or understand some fundamental cultural norms. Some points to watch out for:

• Paradox is name of the game. While people may be open minded in the bedroom, they are usually "old fashioned" when it comes to values.
  
  
• Building trust is everything. For friends, business or love. Trust only comes with informality, seamlessly endless chit-chat without any direct outcome or objective, and most importantly time.
  
  
• Communication is key and Argentines love to talk/ share. You are expected to respond and make an effort to proactively communicate for the sake of communicating. People here invest a lot of time into other people. Not just in love and dating.
  
  
• People like to use subtle hints in their conversations to let others know what page they are on. Body language, specific vocabulary and the things that are unsaid say a lot. If there is a communication barrier this may be difficult but won't necessarily be forgiven if failing to drop/ receive the hint accordingly. There is even a verb form in Spanish for this subtle form of communication which is without parallel in many other languages and often perceived as "dishonest" or "wishy washy" by English speakers. It's generally seen as rude / pushy to say exactly what you want or what you really think of the other person without having a relationship of trust.
  
  
• Unless they ask directly, many do not like being flat-out ignored/ ignoring or told/ telling in direct terms you are not interested, and they do not like saying "no" directly. If they have no intention of ever seeing you again it is more polite to say "We should go to X place next week!" and leave it silently pending and unconfirmed or met with excuses rather than just saying "I'm not interested". Saving face is important and polite.
  
  
• Teasing out any future plans in an obligation free / light and/ or humorous way to ensure both parties are equally interested is better than skipping to logistics and asking "I pick you up at 9" like some kind of brute. People feel 100% more comfortable if things evolve organically rather than what their calendar or some pushy foreign guy reminds/ obligates them to do.
  
  
• You never become someone's "novix" right away, first you become a "chongx" - like some kind of purgatory or holding cell until the pair can work out where / if it is going anywhere. Exclusivity is not generally expected or delivered, but discretion should be. It's all about playing it tranki. Even as a chongx, you will often be expected to meet friends of your chongx where you will be collectively judged and deemed compatible or not - the social group mentality and fit is very important here and friends talk to each other about every little detail and are generally a part of a persons trust and decision making framework.
  
  
• If they are interested in staying in touch as acquaintances or as friends, then they fully expect to stay in touch - Argentines take friendship very seriously unlike say North Americans who are perceived to have very superficial and short lived friendships. Failing to be both proactive and responsive in communications will be seen as hurtful and offensive. Even if you only meet once in your lives and you had a good onda with the person (even if romantically it was not going anywhere) you are expected to communicate from time to time and stay friendly forever. Argentines are pros at networking - every date that doesn't "go anywhere" is not something to just be thrown away and forgotten.

This is an excellent description of what I feel like their personality is. It's just sooooo opposite of how I am lol. If there was a gun to my head saying adapt or die, I'd tell them to pull the trigger lol. I am more or the straight forward direct type. I actually prefer not to plan things and do everything sporadically. But even that technically requires some effort.

If I invite a girl out, she says yes, I put in some effort to maybe make a reservation and go, and then she changes things, I'm never going to speak again. From your post, what people here find cute and pleasant, I find disrespectful, and what I find to be good habits, they find disrespectful... that's a no win situation. And because both parties are at opposite extremes, it's simply not a good idea to engage.

 

[nikad]

I think the OP may be missing Argentine communication styles in general which is to be expected from someone fresh off the boat from a culture like the US which is very different and brash compared to this one.

What he perceives as games and frustration may actually just not yet being able to read between the lines or understand some fundamental cultural norms. Some points to watch out for:

• Paradox is name of the game. While people may be open minded in the bedroom, they are usually "old fashioned" when it comes to values.
  
  
• Building trust is everything. For friends, business or love. Trust only comes with informality, seamlessly endless chit-chat without any direct outcome or objective, and most importantly time.
  
  
• Communication is key and Argentines love to talk/ share. You are expected to respond and make an effort to proactively communicate for the sake of communicating. People here invest a lot of time into other people. Not just in love and dating.
  
  
• People like to use subtle hints in their conversations to let others know what page they are on. Body language, specific vocabulary and the things that are unsaid say a lot. If there is a communication barrier this may be difficult but won't necessarily be forgiven if failing to drop/ receive the hint accordingly. There is even a verb form in Spanish for this subtle form of communication which is without parallel in many other languages and often perceived as "dishonest" or "wishy washy" by English speakers. It's generally seen as rude / pushy to say exactly what you want or what you really think of the other person without having a relationship of trust.
  
  
• Unless they ask directly, many do not like being flat-out ignored/ ignoring or told/ telling in direct terms you are not interested, and they do not like saying "no" directly. If they have no intention of ever seeing you again it is more polite to say "We should go to X place next week!" and leave it silently pending and unconfirmed or met with excuses rather than just saying "I'm not interested". Saving face is important and polite.
  
  
• Teasing out any future plans in an obligation free / light and/ or humorous way to ensure both parties are equally interested is better than skipping to logistics and asking "I pick you up at 9" like some kind of brute. People feel 100% more comfortable if things evolve organically rather than what their calendar or some pushy foreign guy reminds/ obligates them to do.
  
  
• You never become someone's "novix" right away, first you become a "chongx" - like some kind of purgatory or holding cell until the pair can work out where / if it is going anywhere. Exclusivity is not generally expected or delivered, but discretion should be. It's all about playing it tranki. Even as a chongx, you will often be expected to meet friends of your chongx where you will be collectively judged and deemed compatible or not - the social group mentality and fit is very important here and friends talk to each other about every little detail and are generally a part of a persons trust and decision making framework.
  
  
• If they are interested in staying in touch as acquaintances or as friends, then they fully expect to stay in touch - Argentines take friendship very seriously unlike say North Americans who are perceived to have very superficial and short lived friendships. Failing to be both proactive and responsive in communications will be seen as hurtful and offensive. Even if you only meet once in your lives and you had a good onda with the person (even if romantically it was not going anywhere) you are expected to communicate from time to time and stay friendly forever. Argentines are pros at networking - every date that doesn't "go anywhere" is not something to just be thrown away and forgotten.

These are very insightful remarks Antipodean. I mostly agree with all of them. It is indeed difficult to put into words what you just did. Thanks.

 

[iggysnacks]

TH

I think the OP may be missing Argentine communication styles in general which is to be expected from someone fresh off the boat from a culture like the US which is very different and brash compared to this one.

What he perceives as games and frustration may actually just not yet being able to read between the lines or understand some fundamental cultural norms. Some points to watch out for:

• Paradox is name of the game. While people may be open minded in the bedroom, they are usually "old fashioned" when it comes to values.
  
  
• Building trust is everything. For friends, business or love. Trust only comes with informality, seamlessly endless chit-chat without any direct outcome or objective, and most importantly time.
  
  
• Communication is key and Argentines love to talk/ share. You are expected to respond and make an effort to proactively communicate for the sake of communicating. People here invest a lot of time into other people. Not just in love and dating.
  
  
• People like to use subtle hints in their conversations to let others know what page they are on. Body language, specific vocabulary and the things that are unsaid say a lot. If there is a communication barrier this may be difficult but won't necessarily be forgiven if failing to drop/ receive the hint accordingly. There is even a verb form in Spanish for this subtle form of communication which is without parallel in many other languages and often perceived as "dishonest" or "wishy washy" by English speakers. It's generally seen as rude / pushy to say exactly what you want or what you really think of the other person without having a relationship of trust.
  
  
• Unless they ask directly, many do not like being flat-out ignored/ ignoring or told/ telling in direct terms you are not interested, and they do not like saying "no" directly. If they have no intention of ever seeing you again it is more polite to say "We should go to X place next week!" and leave it silently pending and unconfirmed or met with excuses rather than just saying "I'm not interested". Saving face is important and polite.
  
  
• Teasing out any future plans in an obligation free / light and/ or humorous way to ensure both parties are equally interested is better than skipping to logistics and asking "I pick you up at 9" like some kind of brute. People feel 100% more comfortable if things evolve organically rather than what their calendar or some pushy foreign guy reminds/ obligates them to do.
  
  
• You never become someone's "novix" right away, first you become a "chongx" - like some kind of purgatory or holding cell until the pair can work out where / if it is going anywhere. Exclusivity is not generally expected or delivered, but discretion should be. It's all about playing it tranki. Even as a chongx, you will often be expected to meet friends of your chongx where you will be collectively judged and deemed compatible or not - the social group mentality and fit is very important here and friends talk to each other about every little detail and are generally a part of a persons trust and decision making framework.
  
  
• If they are interested in staying in touch as acquaintances or as friends, then they fully expect to stay in touch - Argentines take friendship very seriously unlike say North Americans who are perceived to have very superficial and short lived friendships. Failing to be both proactive and responsive in communications will be seen as hurtful and offensive. Even if you only meet once in your lives and you had a good onda with the person (even if romantically it was not going anywhere) you are expected to communicate from time to time and stay friendly forever. Argentines are pros at networking - every date that doesn't "go anywhere" is not something to just be thrown away and forgotten.

this is such a great reply, and if you understand these norms then dating here as a single foreign guy is an absolute dream. The women tend to be really confident, cultured, creative, and driven. They're also stunning, and very direct in getting in to bed. you just need to get used to the communication style.

 

[nikad]

This is an excellent description of what I feel like their personality is. It's just sooooo opposite of how I am lol. If there was a gun to my head saying adapt or die, I'd tell them to pull the trigger lol. I am more or the straight forward direct type. I actually prefer not to plan things and do everything sporadically. But even that technically requires some effort.

If I invite a girl out, she says yes, I put in some effort to maybe make a reservation and go, and then she changes things, I'm never going to speak again. From your post, what people here find cute and pleasant, I find disrespectful, and what I find to be good habits, they find disrespectful... that's a no win situation. And because both parties are at opposite extremes, it's simply not a good idea to engage.

I am not sure how old you are or how long you have been in this country. Yes, culture is very different. VERY. It might seem like it is not though. My DH has been here for about 18 yrs now. When he moved, he was a smoker. Everytime we were with other people I had to remind him that it was considered very rude not to offer cigarettes to the rest of the people we were hanging out with, and he kept feeling guilty because in the US it would be the other way around, you offer cigs and people really dislike it since you are offering / sharing something unhealthy and harmful to them.

 

[steveinbsas]

this is a weird thread

But it is hardly a new topic.

Here is a list of threads which include the words "Argentine Women" in the title (going back almost 14 years).

Search results for query: argentine women

baexpats.org

 

[SecretShopper]

I am not sure how old you are or how long you have been in this country. Yes, culture is very different. VERY. It might seem like it is not though. My DH has been here for about 18 yrs now. When he moved, he was a smoker. Everytime we were with other people I had to remind him that it was considered very rude not to offer cigarettes to the rest of the people we were hanging out with, and he kept feeling guilty because in the US it would be the other way around, you offer cigs and people really dislike it since you are offering / sharing something unhealthy and harmful to them.

I understand the point that you are trying to make, but it is different. Changing a habit like offering a cigarette, and most other cultural changes, require 0 time, effort, or money. Therefore, it is very easy to make those changes. On the other hand, there is almost nothing that requires more time and effort than dating. And the customs of the people here result in a giant loss of time and effort. That is unforgivable to me. You may argue that in the long run it could be worth it. But I don't see it like that because I'm not playing the same game.

 

[antipodean]

This is an excellent description of what I feel like their personality is. It's just sooooo opposite of how I am lol. If there was a gun to my head saying adapt or die, I'd tell them to pull the trigger lol. I am more or the straight forward direct type. I actually prefer not to plan things and do everything sporadically. But even that technically requires some effort.

If I invite a girl out, she says yes, I put in some effort to maybe make a reservation and go, and then she changes things, I'm never going to speak again. From your post, what people here find cute and pleasant, I find disrespectful, and what I find to be good habits, they find disrespectful... that's a no win situation. And because both parties are at opposite extremes, it's simply not a good idea to engage.

You’ll find it’s not just dating but friendships, business, work and even getting simple things done here here too. If you feel this time consuming way of interaction is incompatible with you and you’re unable to adapt yourself, you need to ask if you really want to be here because if not, it will either drive you crazy or make you very lonely.

No one really cares about your culture or norms and few here will adapt themselves to you - internalize that because you’re not in Kansas anymore. Culturally Argentines can really be some of the least compromising people you’ll ever meet (in terms of being “stuck in their ways”, tastes and preferences... just try and serve a condiment that is not Chimichuri or Criolla at an asado and read the room to see what I mean... then ask yourself if they are going to change or you are?)

Otherwise just take a deep breath, loosen up, sip a Mate and begin the loooong road of adapting and learning to live with your new culture. You’ll have a far richer experience here if you do and maybe you’ll even meet that rare special someone who is an exception to the norm when you least expect it and can be your oasis amidst the madness.