Cristina's culpability in the financial crisis and if capital controls will work under the peronists

Stantucker

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In today's El Cronista there is a reprint of an article from the Financial Times by Steve Johnson about whether capital controls work.

In the article he say:
"As for Argentina Edward Glossop, an economist expert in Latin America at Capital Economics, said that not only the previous rounds of controls from 2011 to 2015 failed to stop the bleeding of foreign reserves, but led to a foreign exchange and balance of payment crisis.

As at that time the authorities limited the fall in the nominal exchange rate, even in a scenario off between 15% and 20% inflation, the peso was considerably overvalued. That prepared the ground for an immense devaluation in December 2016 and for the deep falls of last year and this year."

In the article he goes on to say that capital controls will work here only when underlying problems (like "la arriaga incontinencia fiscal y crónica inflación") are addressed and few believe that the peronists will address those issues. Here capital controls have functioned only a band aid on a very deep wound.
 
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"Capital Controls" can mean anything. Its not like there is one mandatory global way to "control capital". And, historically, capital control has not worked, EVER, in Argentina, so the logical answer to your question is, no, they wont work. The current government, and the new government, have tried various things to achieve the two goals of capital controls- to prop up the value of the peso, and to avoid capital flight. And, of course, to tax capital, rather than have it sneak off to the Bahamas tax free.
Nothing Christina did, or Macri has done, has worked very well for any of those things, and, given the likelihood of some renegotiation of debt at best, and default at worst, my guess is attempts to control it will fail even worse in the future.
Usually they dont affect the real capital much at all, as the wealthy have ways of moving money around- its mostly a pain for the middle class, who cant take money on vacation to sawgrass mall and disneyland.
 
The title of the thread is misleading as the main culprit of this financial crisis was Mauricio Macri not Kristina . Who was the one who increased the debt over 10 times , increased service costs over 30 times , created a casino economy where it was more profitable to invest in bonds than businesses , inflation at historic highs ( under Kristina the inflation was half and was accompanied with wage increases )

Peoples living standards have been decimated due to the mismanagement of the economy and now the minimum wage in Argentina is the 2nd lowest in South America after Venezuela . The people feel very betrayed in the current government as they sincerely wanted a change and were willing to sacrifice for this .

Regarding capital controls I do not agree with them as what Argentina needs more than ever is trust and confidence in the system . When you put restrictions in place it causes fear and panic and has the opposite effect . I am not positive for the future as there are many vested interests in profiting from this crisis.
 
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The title of the thread is misleading as the main culprit of this financial crisis was Mauricio Macri not Kristina . Who was the one who increased the debt over 10 times , increased service costs over 30 times , created a casino economy where it was more profitable to invest in bonds than businesses , inflation at historic highs ( under Kristina the inflation was half and was accompanied with wage increases )

Peoples living standards have been decimated due to the mismanagement of the economy and now the minimum wage in Argentina is the 2nd lowest in South America after Venezuela . The people feel very betrayed in the current government as they sincerely wanted a change and were willing to sacrifice for this .

Regarding capital controls I do not agree with them as what Argentina needs more than ever is trust and confidence in the system . When you put restrictions in place it causes fear and panic and has the opposite effect . I am not positive for the future as there are many vested interests in profiting from this crisis.
Perry obviously not a fan of Macri but to give Cristina a pass for her 8yr reign (plus that of Nestor) is really stretching it as those two cleaned out much of Argentina's assets.
 
Perry obviously not a fan of Macri but to give Cristina a pass for her 8yr reign (plus that of Nestor) is really stretching it as those two cleaned out much of Argentina's assets.
Indeed, apart from the lawyer Perry has become the most bias poster here. He hates Macri and offers little constructive comment because of that hatred. Posts high on content but low on nuance.

Most are simply saying Argentina's problems are systemic and have been decades in the building (way before Kirchner even) so the country will never change without embracing massive structural upheaval. Few are arguing Macri has been a success or has not participated in that systemic failure, in fact he has caused a lot of problems. Despite the clarity of what most members are saying, Perry does a five paragraph equivalent of "me right, you wrong, Macri".
 
Absurd, in my view, to describe any criticism of Macri as 'bias'. I find it surprising that the expat community have so wholeheartedly bought in to the "Kirchnerism = band of criminals / Macri = fragrant beacon of virtue, leading Argentina back to civilisation" shibboleth propagated by the oligarchic local media.

For what it's worth, I reproduce here an Article from the opinion pages of the New York Times:

Who Is to Blame for Argentina’s Economic Crisis?
Argentines remember the role the I.M.F. played in the last depression. They also remember the improvement in their lives under Kirchnerism.

What are we to make of Argentina’s surprise election results on Aug. 11, which jolted pollsters and analysts alike, and roiled the country’s financial markets? In the presidential primary for the country’s October election, the opposition ticket of Alberto Fernández trounced President Mauricio Macri by an unexpected margin of 15.6 percent.
The Fernández coalition attributes its victory to Mr. Macri’s failed economic policies, blaming him for the current economic crisis, recession and high inflation. Mr. Macri, by contrast, blames the fear of a future government of Kirchnerism — his label for the opposition — for the postelection financial turbulence as well as the problems of the economy since he took office more than three and a half years ago. He argues that both the markets and the people have everything to fear from such an outcome.
This disagreement is not just an academic argument, nor one specific to Argentina. It is a recurring, almost archetypical debate during economic crises that spill over into political contests. In recent years — in Britain, Spain, France, Greece and other countries where failed economic policies faced left-of-center challengers — Mr. Macri’s refrain was a frequent line of attack by incumbents.
Financial markets can move for many reasons, which can be unclear or even based on misperceptions of reality. In the case of last week’s news, we have electoral losses by a government whose economic policies have clearly failed and gains by challengers who hail from a period of strong and widely shared economic growth. This is not something that is inherently bad for the economy.
With Kirchnerism, Mr. Macri refers to the policies, followers and presidential administrations of the Kirchner family, which held office from 2003 to 2015 — first Néstor Kirchner, and then Cristina Fernández de Kirchner. Ms. Kirchner is running as the vice-presidential candidate on Alberto Fernández’s ticket and is a prominent leader of the opposition coalition — although this Peronist coalition is much larger and broader than the “Kirchnerista” base.
From an economist or social scientist’s perspective, it’s not clear why Kirchnerism should inspire fear. Looking at the most important economic and social indicators, the governments of the Kirchner presidencies were among the most successful in the Western Hemisphere.
Independent estimates show a decline of 71 percent in poverty and an 81 percent decline in extreme poverty. The government instituted one of the biggest conditional cash transfer programs for the poor in Latin America. According to the International Monetary Fund, gross domestic product per person grew by 42 percent, almost three times the rate of Mexico. Unemployment fell by more than half, and income inequality also fell considerably. The 12 years the Kirchners held office resulted in large increases in living standards for a vast majority of Argentines, by any reasonable comparison.
Economic growth waned in the last few years of Ms. Kirchner’s presidency. The government made some mistakes and was also dealt an external economic blow. A 2012 ruling by a federal appeals court in New York — a decision widely regarded as dubious and political — took more than 90 percent of Argentina’s creditors hostage to force payment to a small group of “vulture funds” that refused to join the debt restructuring of the early 2000s. The United States government blocked loans from international lenders such as the Inter-American Development Bank, at a time when the economy needed the foreign exchange.
By comparison, poverty has increased significantly, income per person has fallen, and unemployment has increased during Mr. Macri’s term, which began in December 2015. Short-term interest rates have shot up to 75 percent today from 32 percent; inflation has soared to 54 percent from 18 percent. The public debt has grown to more than 86 percent of G.D.P. from 53 percent.
How much of this economic crisis and poor performance is his predecessor’s fault?
In 2018 Mr. Macri signed an agreement for a $57 billion loan — the largest I.M.F. bailout in history. The loan agreement, along with the reviews since, detail the government’s economic goals, strategy and execution. There is a lot of information publicly available that lays out what went wrong.
The main strategy of the program was to restore investor confidence through tighter fiscal and monetary policy. But, as has often happened, these measures slowed the economy and undermined investor confidence. By October, the results were vastly worse than the I.M.F. had projected. The government and I.M.F. increased both fiscal and monetary tightening, but it did not help.
The government also wasted more than $16 billion in unsuccessful attempts to keep the peso from falling and greatly increased the more problematic foreign component of the public debt. The result has been near-constant recession and high inflation, enormous interest rates, peso depreciation, financial instability and the huge run-up in public debt. The debt increase is particularly noteworthy because Mr. Macri inherited a low level of public debt.
Ironically, the I.M.F. is well known in Argentina for promoting similarly unworkable policies during the deep depression of 1998 to 2002 — comparable to America’s Great Depression of the 1930s. Yes, history is repeating itself, although in this case the I.M.F. has a stronger partnership with the government than it had 20 years ago.
The Fernández candidates will have to outline how they would get out of this mess. They can explain how Argentina exited from a much more severe economic crisis, with an unemployment rate more than twice as high and millions of previously middle-class people having fallen into poverty. They can assure creditors that there is no need for default on the public debt today, as there was then, because it was completely unpayable. But, as in 2003, the economy cannot recover under the conditions agreed upon with the I.M.F., and they will have to be renegotiated.
Millions of Argentines remember the last depression and the role the I.M.F. played. Many also remember the rapid improvement in people’s lives over the ensuing decade. That collective memory and consciousness may now determine the outcome of this recurring debate over the economy, and with it, the October election, and possibly much of Argentina’s future.

Mark Weisbrot is a co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington and the president of Just Foreign Policy. He is also the author of “Failed: What the ‘Experts’ Got Wrong About the Global Economy.”
 
Ok, I agree Macri hasn’t done well. But he inherited a mess. But to provide an op-Ed by Mark Weisbrot as a balanced view of the Kirchner regime?? Check out Mr. Weisbrot’s defense of Chavez and Maduro in Venezuela...this guy is a hard core socialist with very one sided views.
 
Absurd, in my view, to describe any criticism of Macri as 'bias'. I find it surprising that the expat community have so wholeheartedly bought in to the "Kirchnerism = band of criminals / Macri = fragrant beacon of virtue, leading Argentina back to civilisation" shibboleth propagated by the oligarchic local media.
You might have had a point if you did not fail at reading comprehension.

I did not say any critisicm of Macri is biased. I said only critisizing Macri and not recognizing the institutional mess Argentina is in and has been in for decades is biased. Macri can and should be critisized, but Perry (and seemingly you) can't recognize that Argentina's system as a whole should be critisized. Macri is a failure but the previous government and its ethos also failed, and unless drastic changes are made the next one will too.

Time will prove this. Let's see in four years if Argentina is fulfilling its vast potential. Not enough time, let's see in 10 years time. I would predict the situation in the country will be largely unchanged. That's whether Macri or Fernandez wins the election.
 
Absurd, in my view, to describe any criticism of Macri as 'bias'. I find it surprising that the expat community have so wholeheartedly bought in to the "Kirchnerism = band of criminals / Macri = fragrant beacon of virtue, leading Argentina back to civilisation" shibboleth propagated by the oligarchic local media.

For what it's worth, I reproduce here an Article from the opinion pages of the New York Times:

Who Is to Blame for Argentina’s Economic Crisis?
Argentines remember the role the I.M.F. played in the last depression. They also remember the improvement in their lives under Kirchnerism.

What are we to make of Argentina’s surprise election results on Aug. 11, which jolted pollsters and analysts alike, and roiled the country’s financial markets? In the presidential primary for the country’s October election, the opposition ticket of Alberto Fernández trounced President Mauricio Macri by an unexpected margin of 15.6 percent.
The Fernández coalition attributes its victory to Mr. Macri’s failed economic policies, blaming him for the current economic crisis, recession and high inflation. Mr. Macri, by contrast, blames the fear of a future government of Kirchnerism — his label for the opposition — for the postelection financial turbulence as well as the problems of the economy since he took office more than three and a half years ago. He argues that both the markets and the people have everything to fear from such an outcome.
This disagreement is not just an academic argument, nor one specific to Argentina. It is a recurring, almost archetypical debate during economic crises that spill over into political contests. In recent years — in Britain, Spain, France, Greece and other countries where failed economic policies faced left-of-center challengers — Mr. Macri’s refrain was a frequent line of attack by incumbents.
Financial markets can move for many reasons, which can be unclear or even based on misperceptions of reality. In the case of last week’s news, we have electoral losses by a government whose economic policies have clearly failed and gains by challengers who hail from a period of strong and widely shared economic growth. This is not something that is inherently bad for the economy.
With Kirchnerism, Mr. Macri refers to the policies, followers and presidential administrations of the Kirchner family, which held office from 2003 to 2015 — first Néstor Kirchner, and then Cristina Fernández de Kirchner. Ms. Kirchner is running as the vice-presidential candidate on Alberto Fernández’s ticket and is a prominent leader of the opposition coalition — although this Peronist coalition is much larger and broader than the “Kirchnerista” base.
From an economist or social scientist’s perspective, it’s not clear why Kirchnerism should inspire fear. Looking at the most important economic and social indicators, the governments of the Kirchner presidencies were among the most successful in the Western Hemisphere.
Independent estimates show a decline of 71 percent in poverty and an 81 percent decline in extreme poverty. The government instituted one of the biggest conditional cash transfer programs for the poor in Latin America. According to the International Monetary Fund, gross domestic product per person grew by 42 percent, almost three times the rate of Mexico. Unemployment fell by more than half, and income inequality also fell considerably. The 12 years the Kirchners held office resulted in large increases in living standards for a vast majority of Argentines, by any reasonable comparison.
Economic growth waned in the last few years of Ms. Kirchner’s presidency. The government made some mistakes and was also dealt an external economic blow. A 2012 ruling by a federal appeals court in New York — a decision widely regarded as dubious and political — took more than 90 percent of Argentina’s creditors hostage to force payment to a small group of “vulture funds” that refused to join the debt restructuring of the early 2000s. The United States government blocked loans from international lenders such as the Inter-American Development Bank, at a time when the economy needed the foreign exchange.
By comparison, poverty has increased significantly, income per person has fallen, and unemployment has increased during Mr. Macri’s term, which began in December 2015. Short-term interest rates have shot up to 75 percent today from 32 percent; inflation has soared to 54 percent from 18 percent. The public debt has grown to more than 86 percent of G.D.P. from 53 percent.
How much of this economic crisis and poor performance is his predecessor’s fault?
In 2018 Mr. Macri signed an agreement for a $57 billion loan — the largest I.M.F. bailout in history. The loan agreement, along with the reviews since, detail the government’s economic goals, strategy and execution. There is a lot of information publicly available that lays out what went wrong.
The main strategy of the program was to restore investor confidence through tighter fiscal and monetary policy. But, as has often happened, these measures slowed the economy and undermined investor confidence. By October, the results were vastly worse than the I.M.F. had projected. The government and I.M.F. increased both fiscal and monetary tightening, but it did not help.
The government also wasted more than $16 billion in unsuccessful attempts to keep the peso from falling and greatly increased the more problematic foreign component of the public debt. The result has been near-constant recession and high inflation, enormous interest rates, peso depreciation, financial instability and the huge run-up in public debt. The debt increase is particularly noteworthy because Mr. Macri inherited a low level of public debt.
Ironically, the I.M.F. is well known in Argentina for promoting similarly unworkable policies during the deep depression of 1998 to 2002 — comparable to America’s Great Depression of the 1930s. Yes, history is repeating itself, although in this case the I.M.F. has a stronger partnership with the government than it had 20 years ago.
The Fernández candidates will have to outline how they would get out of this mess. They can explain how Argentina exited from a much more severe economic crisis, with an unemployment rate more than twice as high and millions of previously middle-class people having fallen into poverty. They can assure creditors that there is no need for default on the public debt today, as there was then, because it was completely unpayable. But, as in 2003, the economy cannot recover under the conditions agreed upon with the I.M.F., and they will have to be renegotiated.
Millions of Argentines remember the last depression and the role the I.M.F. played. Many also remember the rapid improvement in people’s lives over the ensuing decade. That collective memory and consciousness may now determine the outcome of this recurring debate over the economy, and with it, the October election, and possibly much of Argentina’s future.

Mark Weisbrot is a co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington and the president of Just Foreign Policy. He is also the author of “Failed: What the ‘Experts’ Got Wrong About the Global Economy.”
How interesting your use of the term "oligarchic press." You can find multiple criticisms of Macri, some of them even very harsh, every day in Clarin and La Nacion. When was the last time you saw the Ks criticized in the "non-oligarchic" press? Practically never, or never seriously. What kind of govts have no type of critical press? Dictatorships. But I guess as long as it's a leftist or "socialist" dictatorship like Venezuela, or even Cuba has, that's OK? I guess corruption and outright thievery are also OK, as long as they are practiced by govts of "el pueblo."
 
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