50th Anniversary of the 1976 coup

[ArgentinaVet]

I am not getting where you get the "democratic state" history.
Argentina had a continuing series of military coups from the 1930s thru 1973, when Campora won the election, lasted less than a year, then "gave" the presidency to Peron. Peron was supported by the military, the church, and the extreme right wing. He died a year later. His wife was again, unelected, "given" the presidency.
another military coup was effected in 1976.

and many of the "marxist" guerrillas were actually pretty right wing peronists, conservatively catholic, and far from being lower class, included people like the Bullrich's.
The Montoneros started out as a faction within the Peronist Party, and Patricia Bullrich insists she was actually not a Montonero, (although no one denies her sister, two of her boyfriends, and her husband was) but, instead, a Peronist Youth.
She worked for both Macri and Milei, both notorious "marxists", eh?
And she was descended from a former president and a former mayor of BA.
The terrorists originally included military officers who were working for Peron, fighting against other military officers who used to work for Peron.
Rega, who had been Peron's right hand man, is usually attributed with choreographing the Ezieza Massacre, against his competitor, Campora, and the JP.

its hardly as simple as a "Cuban Marxist State".
Maybe a marxist state where the wealthy served in the government and kept their large apartments in Recoleta?

Juan Peron was elected President and his wife Isabel Peron was elected Vice President with 61.86% of the votes on September 23, 1973. Upon Juan Peron's death in 1974, Isabel Peron became the President as she was first in line of succession as the sitting Vice President.

I suggest you research the actual history of the period instead of repeating modern day political talking points of the Kirchners, modern left wing political parties, etc.

 

[Ries]

Juan Peron was elected President and his wife Isabel Peron was elected Vice President with 61.86% of the votes on September 23, 1973. Upon Juan Peron's death in 1974, Isabel Peron became the President as she was first in line of succession as the sitting Vice President.

I suggest you research the actual history of the period instead of repeating modern day political talking points of the Kirchners, modern left wing political parties, etc.

Obviously they were both elected, which is why I used quotation marks.
The resignation of Campara was not the action of a normal "democratic state". It was a manipulation by Peron himself.
And the subsequent election of Isabel certainly is not a sign of a healthy democratic state- she was completely unqualified, and the actual power, the military, stepped in and removed her. They put her under house arrest. What democratic state does that?

If you look at the actual history of Argentina, between 1930, and 1983, not a single elected president peacefully handed over his office to another elected president. Again and again, the military stepped in and did what it wanted.

Peron himself was an enthusiastic participant in military coups, starting in 1930.
He also spent almost 2 years in Italy, studying fascism under Mussolini, and thought there were a lot of good ideas there.
He supported the 1943 coup as well. And rose in power and rank as a result, positioning him for the election he won in 1945.
The military was absolutely behind him in that election, and Peron supported many serving officers who ran for office as well.
Again, hardly a free democratic movement.
Peron himself began the crackdown on the left, in the fifties.
I dont think you can call him a marxist, or a fascist, but he certainly had both friends and enemies in both camps.
Nonetheless, once again, he was deposed by a military coup.
After that, we had two generals declared "president", 3 elected presidents deposed by three more coups, and then five or six generals, until, finally, in 1983, there was finally a freely elected non-general as president.

So, 60 plus years of coups, rigged elections, insider resignations, house arrests, exiles, and prison.
Thats what you call a democratic state?

And of course, the old insult of "kirchnerism"- The Kirchners consider themselves Peronists. As did Patricia Bullrich.
Basically, it means whatever you want it to mean.
Left Wing, Right Wing, Military Dictatorship, President by marriage- its meaningless to accuse anyone of left wing kirchner peronism.


Argentine politics are way more complicated, but the wealthy persist in being wealthy, and getting elected, and not changing much of anything.
I am an unapoligetic social democrat, and sure, I believe some of what Peron did was good, and a lot was bad. I believe Cristina did some good things, and still have my criticisms of her, too.
But I do believe that the military kidnapped, tortured, raped and murdered tens of thousands of people, most innocent, and that the left wing montoneros were far more discriminating in who they killed.
I am against political violence. Period.
I was moved by the memorial last weekend.
And, I had a chori from a completely unregulated guerrilla chori parilla.

 

[JMHarris]

@Ries, you are fighting the good fight! Thank you for your accurate and factual posts on Argentine history.

 

[FrankPintor]

@Ries, you are fighting the good fight! Thank you for your accurate and factual posts on Argentine history.

It’s an ongoing thing, a very select few forum members, who wish to negotiate the numbers of dead and disappeared, and otherwise shouldn’t be allowed out on their own, will come back next year and every year to fill the zone with shit. Thank you @Ries and the others here and everywhere who have taken the time to remember the disappeared.

 

[Alby]

Everybody who contributes to the threads on this issue, from all sides, hopes the number is closer to 10,000 than to 30,000. Right? Nobody in this or similar threads goes out looking for evidence that the higher estimates are correct (say the CIA report from 1977 of 22,000) and then looks for reasons to extrapolate those estimates forward to increase the number further. On the contrary, even those whose personal political views might encourage them to do otherwise genuinely hope the higher figures were major overestimates and, if anything, look for reasons why they may have been so. Nobody wants to believe it was 30,000. Everybody clings to the hope that one day, uncontrovertible evidence that the real number was closer to 10,000 will emerge, and that the 20,000 that under other estimates must have perished did not in fact do so and continued to walk the earth. We, instinctively, do that. Don’t we?

 

[Dim Witty]

Intensely focusing on things like the number of deaths in a past genocide distracts us from organizing, preventing or even worrying about the current and related threats operating in many regions of the world.
Chomsky famously describes a method of social control that involves strictly limiting the range of acceptable opinion while encouraging lively debate within those boundaries. This strategy creates an illusion of free thinking while ensuring that the core "presuppositions of the system" remain unchallenged.

 

[FrankPintor]

I see someone is going from negotiating the numbers to wishing them away, that's quite an evolution