BBC: al-Qaeda is a CIA creation

orwellian

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Some interesting facts about the organization the U.S government would have you believe are the new enemy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-hYorNi0nA

“The myth of ‘al Qaida’ is built on an expansive foundation of many half-truths and hidden facts,” explains Peter Chamberlin. “It is a CIA creation. It was shaped by the agency to serve as a substitute ‘enemy’ for America, replacing the Soviets whom the Islamist forces had driven from Afghanistan. Unknown American officials, at an indeterminate point in time, made the decision to fabricate the tale of a mythical worldwide network of Islamic terrorists from the exploits of the Afghan Mujahedeen.”
 

Matt84

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let's poke some holes:

Al Qaida is Arab for "The Base".
Islam is Arab for "Submission" -to Allah. The nature of Islam is of an incredibly decentralized system. Even when, at times, the whole "Dar-al-Islam" (Land of Muslims) is united under a single political organization (the Caliphate), such organization is extremely federal. The last example was the Ottoman Empire which employed some excellent ways to hold its domains, while allowing (and using as maintenance relief) autonomous administration.

What does this has to do with the current situation?

"The Base" works towards bringing the Caliphate back, and it is supposed (and there's some evidence of this) that is trying to achieve its goals in a similar fashion as the Caliphate would rule: without total centralized control, but in Islamic nature, as a common perceived goal.

Islam was successful for many centuries probably for being both decentralized and cohesive at the same time.

So, even if the CIA or some other conspiratorial boogyman "created" this "organization", it would have only believed it did.

As S. P. Huntington put it Islam is living Reformation, similar to what happened to Christianity 400 years ago, and it began during the 60, and 70s when Godfearing Arabs were not America's prime concern.

So what could possibly mean that "al qaida is a CIA creation" when there's a inevitable worldwide movement with the same purported goals in most every decolonized country on Earth from Nigeria to Indonesia?

I could say "Islamic Reformation" (and its inevitable temporary extremism) is a British creation! A by-product of an irresponsible decolonization.....

God! Sometimes the thruthers and conspiracy theorists are more Americancentric than their supposed foes!
 

orwellian

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Did you watch the video clip all? This is a BBC documentary, are you calling them conspiracy theorists too?

If I understand you correctly you mean that Al-Qaeda is just a name Muslim terrorists use when carrying out their attacks? Then why not just call it Jihad?
And why does the name Al-Qaeda first surface during the trial of the embassy bombings? Don't you think that is a bit of a co-incidence given that this was exactly what the FBI needed in order to prosecute Bin Laden for it?
 

Matt84

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You don't want me to spell what I feel towards the BBC. All you need to know is that I respect the looniest conspiracy theorists a lot more than them.

I didn't express myself correctly. I'm saying that what we now call the base, is just the heir of organizations like the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood of the 60s, etc. My point is that with or without American intervention, double-crossing, and all other allegations: After Britain decolonized Africa and Asia, Islam rose as the only cohesive force that could give those balkanized places some cohesion and identity. Not the only one, Socialism tried, but failed miserably. The point is that a government agency doesn't have the power to create a huge social, political and criminal movement. It might want to harness that power for its own interests, but not create it.,

Same with WWII: Some lefties say that the Nazis were given power by Capitalists fearing communism, even by Americans wanting an excuse to invade Europe. Ok, even if I accepted that, which I don't, it wouldn't mean that Fascism was created by a western agency.

I mean c'mon! Gov agencies can't even teach kids how to write properly!
 

orwellian

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They didn't create a huge movement. They place blow up some bombs and then write on some Muslim forum that Al-Qaeda did it. Then that gets echoed by the mainstream media. Every time you hear that Al-Qaeda has taken responsibility of an attack, it is most likely the CIA and/or Mossad who are responsible.

The U.S fund these fundamentalists (like the Taliban) just because they rather see them in power than socialists. Fundamentalists are easier to control.

And fascism in Germany, Spain, Italy (etc) was funded and supported by the capitalists for the same reason, they did not want the socialists or communists to win.
Hitler received quite a lot of help from the U.S. Especially from Prescott Bush, George W Bush's grandfather.

Did you watch the clip though?
 

Matt84

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This can be fun when you've had a couple of beers.

orwellian said:
They didn't create a huge movement. They place blow up some bombs and then write on some Muslim forum that Al-Qaeda did it. Then that gets echoed by the mainstream media. Every time you hear that Al-Qaeda has taken responsibility of an attack, it is most likely the CIA and/or Mossad who are responsible.

The U.S fund these fundamentalists (like the Taliban) just because they rather see them in power than socialists. Fundamentalists are easier to control.

And fascism in Germany, Spain, Italy (etc) was funded and supported by the capitalists for the same reason, they did not want the socialists or communists to win.
Hitler received quite a lot of help from the U.S. Especially from Prescott Bush, George W Bush's grandfather.

Did you watch the clip though?
Not all Fascists are Nazis: The ones that say that Western agencies "planted" Hitler and his warmongering to attack the Soviet Union forgo the fact that Fascism existed well before that and that it was a spontaneous movement. That is point that no matter what operation an agency might do, that doesn't change the underlying facts: in the case of Islamic Fundamentalism, that it is a declared enemy to Western Values.
If the CIA had the task to "find a new enemy after the fall of the USSR" why would it chose islamic fundamentalism other than because they were already enemies?
I'm not defending the CIA, I'm saying that that little clip there shows one more possible trick of millions of stupid complexities that conform the conflict between a semi-free civilization and an incipient new alternative for totalitarianism in the XXI century.

I'm not a fan of the CIA. I know it's public record the unwilling abuse of citizens under mind control experiments such as project MK ULTRA, etc, but considering the World we live in I much prefer to have an intelligence agency, or two that keeps this semi-freedom that we have from the slavery that it would otherwise be.
 

orwellian

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I never said they planted Hitler there. I was saying capitalists rather see fascist in power than socialists. And also that Hitler was funded by the U.S.

The CIA had to pick someone to be their enemy. But that wasn't my point. What I was trying to say was that the U.S supported and still supports dictators and fundamentalists in Arab countries so that socialists won't come to power.
 

Moonwitch

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This is an interesting thread. Personally I don't know much about this but it is obvious that AQ is a farce. It is all part of an agenda to change the world we live in. This enemy has of course been invented. You can do more in five years of war time then you can in 50 years of peace team.

Personally I don't think we are living in a capitalist society anymore. When the Berlin wall fell, it marked the begining of new era were the powers that be have taken the worst elements of both and fused them together. Not that I lived in the USSR, from what I have read I have started to see some scary similarties.
 
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