Buenos Aires Supermarkets More Expensive Than London?

[steveinbsas]

But that's one of reasons I bought land where I could grow my own food..

And the acelga grows almost year round with no attention required. I let some of the plants go to seed. I let them dry out and when I want to increase the harvest, I just toss them "around" (as opposed to "planting" them)..

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Even A-Knob would agree to that!

He's not wrong about everything - even a blind squirrel - but he gets as close as possible.

 

[Sockhopper]

Put up with it? It's been built into the system for decades. You've just described the life of the majority of people who live in "el conurbano."

Most Argentines live outside of Palermo, Belgrano, and other areas frequented by Expats.

I appreciate your seeing the flaw in anybody holding up a food item in London being cheaper as an example of how portenos are being cheated. There's no such thing any longer as a cheap suburb in London for middle-class or working class people to move to! 100% and 400% rent increases are citywide even though the UK has the 'correct' economic model that Argentina is decried by some for having the gall to not establish.

Just like regular portenos, almost no Londoners can tap into income they made abroad.

Does Argentina want a society where only the 'lucky' kids can resort to living with their parents until age 40 and thereby miss out on starting any kind of independent adult life of their own? Where the unemployed lose their paltry housing allowance if they dare not find 40 GBP to DAILY pay for the train to some assigned job far far away that will terminate in 2 weeks? How about unemployed moms being ordered to move half way across the country now and look for work there regardless of the disturbance this uprooting causes their children? How about university students turning to prostitution so as to pay the rent for a dumpy bedsit and still have a bite to eat something from a can heated on a shared hotplate....and continuing to do this after graduation due to being unemployed or making almost no money and now having additionally a debt of £30,000 to repay tuition fees they owe to a student loan company who tracks their movements?

This is the price being paid by Londoners for cheaper milk and decent quality consumer items.

Imo, it’s scurrilously deceptive to misinform Argentines that they’re missing out on some bargain in some other country. The poverty gap in Argentina between richest and poorest of 7 to 1 is worse than the UK’s 5 to 1. But 5 to 1 is nothing to admire, be envious or wish for.

The fact is that whatever this or that country’s economic model is, most regular people have become poorer before our eyes. Middle class people in my French city live the same lifestyle as their porteno counterparts do except that the latter can pay for a maid to help out the odd time or to pay a laundry to wash and fold their clothes or for a dog walker – luxuries most French would not expect and so do themselves without being told they should be angry. The stinker in Argentina is those financial controls which stop people from traveling abroad. However, the French normally stay with a family member somewhere on holidays. They hate paying for hotels unless the price is still what it was in 1994.

What are we going to do to narrow the spread between the uber-wealthy and poorest everywhere – nothing? Is poverty now a salon game to falsely portray which country is winning it this month?

 

[sleslie23]

My point was not about any food items. You were making a comment about only the rich being able to afford to live in (central?) London.

My point is that Buenos Aires has been like that for decades. It's why most people live outside of Capital Federal, yet commute hours to work downtown. Most expats spend their time in neighborhoods that most Argentines could never afford to live in. Thus they aren't aware of the realities the average person here faces. If you have a better standard of life here than in London, good for you. Just stop acting like Buenos Aires is some kind of paradise because it's not for (most of) the people from here.

 

[nkotb]

Sockhopper: Lenin had a pet name for Westerners like you who would enthusiastically spout left-wing clichés to demean their own countries and support failing socialist regimes. Do you know what it was?

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Sockhopper: Lenin had a pet name for Westerners like you who would enthusiastically spout left-wing clichés to demean their own countries and support failing socialist regimes. Do you know what it was?

Yet another commentator who's certain Reagan was a Socialist.

 

[sleslie23]

Just to clarify (and to distance myself from nkotb's drivel) I understand what is happening in London and don't think it's a good thing. I've seen it happen where I grew up in New Mexico. Prices for example in Santa Fe increased when people from other states bought 2nd homes to the point that people from there could no longer afford to. It's also a phenomena that has been happening in San Francisco for a while, but has become even worse recently. A new *studio* rents for around 3000 USD per month. Try raising a family there. It's also happening in Austin, TX where I paid rent most recently.

My point, to reiterate, is that this has been the case in Argentina for a while. Though it may seem great coming from the outside, for those from/on the inside life isn't so great.

 

[syngirl]

Or yes, you could live in Argentina where you won't get a mortgage. You could earn in pesos and realize that taxis are out of the price range of most people here, much less using them all the time. You could deal with health care costs that are increasing 25% a year and can easily cost thousands of pesos a month (or um.. a big percentage of most people's salary) for a basic plan. You could try and figure out how to feed a family in a country where prices are increasing 30% a year along with every other cost but your salary probably isn't.

I love Argentina, I live here, I have a family here but quite frankly, if you live and earn in pesos - it is NOT an easy country to live in, esp in/near cap fed. If you earn or have savings in dollars or pounds, absolutely come and enjoy and yes, it will be a bargain across the board. But understand your reality is far, far away from what most Argentines deal with every day.

Yup I`m in the no-mortgage, (most of) household income in pesos category. We have given up on ever being able to buy in Capital. Now we are looking out of the city -- Escobar-far out. And I still don`t know that we can do it. Every time we think we are going to be able to buy something, we do the math and realise it`s just *that* far out of our reach and that`s even if we take out a personal loan (because if you buy a lot here it has no escritura, so doesn`t even qualify for the paltry "mortages" they do offer, but if you`re buying a lot with the idea to build you`re considered far too rich by the government`s standards to be able access any of the PROCREAR type of building plans. How dare we want to live in a middle class neighbourhood! We fall between the cracks on every bloody programme on offer, and even now when we`ve saved a very decent amount of money by most local standards we still don`t even think we can afford to get our own home.

And then my sister moans about Vancouver prices -- but I have to remind her she only has to put down 10-15% on a property -- which on a million dollar home is the SAME amount we have to pay here -- but she earns in dollars! Yes I know we would own our property outright and she`d be paying hers off, but in terms of salary to property price ratios I really think most Argentines are facing as much of a stretch as some of the most expensive markets in the world.

 

[steveinbsas]

Although I had read the posts in this thread prior to making a post last night, I had not clicked on the link to the cost of living comparison in the first post.

I did that a few minutes ago and the following immediately caught my attention:

"You would need around 3,392.59$ (2,161.08£) in Buenos Aires to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 4,300.00£ in London (assuming you rent in both cities)."

The figure of $3,392.59$ for BA was very close to the total I recently made of my monthly expenses excluding the cost of food, clothes, and entertainment.

I thought to myself, "It can't really cost almost as much (if not more) to live here than in BA! I don't even pay rent, but I do make monthly insurance payments for my house and car and I also pay for nafta and auto repairs."

Then I realized that the monthly "cost of living" figure of 3,392.59 $for BA is in dollars and the total of my "fixed" monthly expenses of $3390 is in pesos (90% less).

I know this would not be true for many others, but at least for me, living in the country is ten times more desirable than living an any city...and there is one I can drive to in 20 minutes that has everything I need.

PS: I think my neighbor's 2 hectares (just under 5 acres) with two houses is still available for $85K USD.

Here's my list of "fixed" monthly expenses:

Auto insurance: $500
Home insurance: $350
DirecTV: $430
Electricity: $150
Gas (LP): $440
Property and municipal taxes: $120
Phone and internet: $400
Nafta (average): $500
Car maintenance (average): $500

Total: $3390

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Yes I know we would own our property outright and she`d be paying hers off, but in terms of salary to property price ratios I really think most Argentines are facing as much of a stretch as some of the most expensive markets in the world.

Unless, of course, you decide to build in a villa - but that comes with other costs.