Business closures in Buenos Aires

MatameBA

Newcomer
There definitely is a crisis. So, I'm not making excuses for Macri or any other politician. It's a bad situation.

But the world has changed a lot since the early 2000s. Crisis or no crisis, people are going out less — even in a super social culture like Argentina. People are addicted to Netflix, Whatsapp and social media. You no longer have to meet in a cafe to have a conversation. You can just send a voice message on Whatsapp while you binge watch 5 hours of a series on Netflix.

The internet is destroying retail worldwide. Argentine businesses were able to avoid this for years, but now it's become much easier to buy products online. Despite the terrible economy, online purchases in Argentina grew 43% this year (source) and show no signs of stopping. I would not recommend ANYONE open up a storefront to sell their products in the USA, Europe, etc. And I would be tempted to give the same advice today in Argentina.

Which sucks, because I'm a huge advocate of the small businessman and I love all of those old school shops. So, it's sad. But the world doesn't care what I think. The world is what the world is. And this is where we are in 2019.
 

perry

Veteran
There definitely is a crisis. So, I'm not making excuses for Macri or any other politician. It's a bad situation.

But the world has changed a lot since the early 2000s. Crisis or no crisis, people are going out less — even in a super social culture like Argentina. People are addicted to Netflix, Whatsapp and social media. You no longer have to meet in a cafe to have a conversation. You can just send a voice message on Whatsapp while you binge watch 5 hours of a series on Netflix.

The internet is destroying retail worldwide. Argentine businesses were able to avoid this for years, but now it's become much easier to buy products online. Despite the terrible economy, online purchases in Argentina grew 43% this year (source) and show no signs of stopping. I would not recommend ANYONE open up a storefront to sell their products in the USA, Europe, etc. And I would be tempted to give the same advice today in Argentina

Which sucks, because I'm a huge advocate of the small businessman and I love all of those old school shops. So, it's sad. But the world doesn't care what I think. The world is what the world is. And this is where we are in 2019.

Great post Matame ! Its very true how the world has changed and in a country like Argentina it is much more noticeable due to its famous socialised culture. Buenos Aires in 2019 is unrecognisable to me than what it was in 1983 . Yes Mercado libre has destroyed many small business but most people are buying the minimum and the absolutely necessary . People have much less disposable income today than for a long time . Restaurants in particular are doing it very tough in Argentina . Yes some famous ones with great food are doing good but 80% of them are in problems . People just are not eating out and they order take away hamburgers, tartas, and milanesas. Meat consumption has rapidly dropped in Argentina the last years and butchers are closing left right and centre . In the 1980s meat consumption was nearly double per capita than today . Meat now has become very expensive at over 300 pesos per kilo for a good cut . The milongas of Buenos Aires once packed to the rafters in the 1980s nowadays are struggling to stay open . This is mostly economic as most milongueros cannot afford a night out .

Tourism has been particularly hard hit of late and especially to Patagonia an area that I am very familiar with . Bariloche once the jewel of the Argentinian tourism business has been very neglected in the last 20 years . Mar del Plata Buenos Aires and Carlos Paz Cordoba seem to be the medias preferred destinations . IMHO Bariloche has one of the most beautiful settings in the world and the province of Rio Negro is unparrelled in its natural beauty . Tourism has so much more potential for Argentina but it is very badly marketed internationally with little incentives for tourists to travel the long distance to come here .

We are at a crossroads now with the most important elections in our history in 6 months . Whoever wins will inherit a huge burden and if it is the left I fear that the world will punish Argentina sending its currency to very low levels . People have little choice as both major canditates today are unpopular for the majority of the population . Argentina needs vision , and a organised spirit of change to create a better society . There is so much potential here but of course the leader of the ship has to work for the common good.
 

perry

Veteran
These are 2017 meet consumption figures per capita by country. (Switch to "Table" tab and sort).


I provided you with a couple of reference points for convenience.

View attachment 5824
Your figures are disputable as by the same organization OECD the USA has a much higher meat consumption than Argentina .
This is from 2016 .

5825
 

lunar

Registered
Meat consumption has rapidly dropped in Argentina the last years and butchers are closing left right and centre .
So, we are ultimately quoting the same source, but yours is much more reliable than mine :).
There is an option at the bottom to select a time range.

Beef consumption in Argentina hasn't changed much since 2010. There is no BIG DROP as you claim at all.

5826
 

perry

Veteran
So, we are ultimately quoting the same source, but yours is much more reliable than mine :).
There is an option at the bottom to select a time range.

Beef consumption in Argentina hasn't changed much since 2010. There is no BIG DROP as you claim at all.

View attachment 5826

Can you please show me the link where you get these figures ? Is this for red meat only?
 

lunar

Registered
Can you please show me the link where you get these figures ? Is this for red meat only?
Open this page


Select "Table" tab.

At the right bottom there is a slider to select a time range. Move the left border to the beginning (1990).

In the Perspectives dropdown on the left "Beef and veal" option is selected automatically.

Sort alphabetically, Argentina's row is on the top.

5827
 

Ries

Registered
the world will only "punish" argentina if it lies there and does nothing.
loans from the outside will not fix the argentine economy, whether they are borrowed by Christina or Macri.
The way the economy will revive is by increasing production and income of argentines- businesses, primarily.
The model of just living on commodity exports and raw materials is outdated and generally leads to situations like the UAE- where 10% of the population is citizens and the rest immigrant workers- or Venezuela- where a single commodity income makes for dicatorship- either by the military, or by a "socialist" - in either case, we see the focus on raw materials ruining economies and the lifestyles of citizens worldwide.
It dont work.
What argentina needs to focus on is education, and value added exports, to bring in foreign exchange, and buoy the local economy. The education level is already far above most south american countries- which is why Argentina exports architects, doctors, software writers, movie directors, musicians, artists, educators, and other high paid, highly desired individuals. If the economy could harness that intellectual horsepower, it would do much better.
I see the big problems not as too much being given to the poor- but too much being given to the rich- subsidies, sweetheart contracts, laws that favor monopolies, laws that favor rent seekers and landowners over small business, tax breaks for a few industries that employ few, and export low value added commodities.
If the government focused on supporting small businesses, manufacturing, and exports of value added products, they would do much better than just subsidizing soybeans and wine.
The IMF program of austerity has failed in every country that has followed it.
The UK is falling apart right now from austerity, and it is causing mass delusions like brexit.
 

bdk1

Registered
Just my two cents, but the current crisis does feel a lot to me like 2001. Actually, right now it feels like the time prior to the 2001 crisis, in that you started hearing about people you know losing their jobs, seeing businesses shut down, and people leaving the country (or wanting to leave but weren't able to). I remember that prices in ARS were actually going down because shop owners were desperate to keep their businesses afloat.

Then one morning we got the newspaper with a picture of Cavallo and a headline that said "Efectivo: sólo 250 pesos por semana." After that you could see businesses put up signs offering 50% discounts if you paid cash.

What's really scary is how fast and unexpectedly things unravel. Much like today, everyone knew that there was a crisis, but I don't think anyone expected the violence, massive looting, and killings. On December 19th I just went downtown like any other day; nothing seemed out of the ordinary when I took the subte back home and by the time I got to my house, De la Rúa had declared the state of emergency.

I guess that right now most people don't know exactly what is going to happen or when, but as someone mentioned in this thread, they are just waiting because they all know something will happen. Whatever it is though, we'll likely not see it coming.
 
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