Business Taxes?

TWB103

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Hi

New to this forum, searched for info on business taxes but in vain. Spoken to a few accountants and they all say different things! It seems theres no one official or unofficial way to handle your taxes.

Can someone tell me the main business taxes to pay (planning a hostel in Salta) and what % people normally declare, tax etiquette etc?

I know the main taxes are:
IVA
social security
Provincial sales tax
Municipal business tax

Is it true noone declare income tax?

Many thanks
 
I'm surprised that the accountants all say different things.

When I first came here 8 years ago, we went to Cordoba to look at setting up an office for programmers. To be honest, there are probably a lot of others on the board that can be more helpful in terms of exact numbers, but I can tell you this: After a good six months of traveling back and forth and talking with a couple of accountants and a couple of businessmen there, I decided that it would never be profitable here (maybe not just money-wise, but headache-wise as well) to do things legally myself. So I worked with a local company to contract directly employees from them and let them worry about all of that while my company stayed officially int he US.

If you are legal, you also have to pay the employees' portion of income tax. There is not exactly "declaration" like we think of it in the States - and employee comes to work based on the amount of money you told him you were going to pay him and he gets that exact amount. I.e., no deductions from taxes. YOU pay his taxes. As well as your business' portion of his social security and medical, etc. Plus, if you're going to buy the building for your hostel, you have ABL and such to pay for.

Just the employee tax side of things, if I recall correctly, would have cost me an additional 63% of an employee's salary. So if you tell a guy you're going to pay him $5000 pesos a month, you'll pay that to him, and an additional $3150 to AFIP. You also have to pay them Aguinaldo (an extra month of pay - paid usually twice a year, half month in July half month in December).

You also will have a nightmare with labor laws. If someone works for you for more than 90 days in a full-time capacity, you are responsible for paying them 30 days wages (less in some jobs like maids, I believe) for each year that they work for you, if you ever have to let them go. And yes, that first year starts on the 91st day of the first year, not after 365 days of employment. That means the employee could impress you with his or her wonderful work ethic for 90 days and then change completely on the 91st, hoping you'll fire him of her, or just not caring one way or the other. If you fire them, you will almost certainly be called to court to explain your actions and about 95% of the time the judge will find in favor of the ex-employee. A lot of businesses end up paying blackmail money (i.e., they just settle) because they know if they go to court they're going to lose.

Make sure you know real well what you're getting into here with starting a business! People can do business here, no doubt about it. Personally, I choose not to, at least for my primary business, because of the true risk. If you know what you're getting into you can probably succeed, but if you come into it blindly without spending possibly months of time researching and understanding, you'll probably not last long. Remember - these are things that I know about from a long time ago. I imagine you have a lot of other taxes to pay, licenses to worry about, and so on, with a place that will be providing lodging to people.
 
It's better if you start a business here to avoid having employees. Just contract everything out that you possibly can. That's a good rule for any Latin American country and not a bad rule in general. Contracting work can be beneficial for both sides in Latin America and if you can set up some clear rules with contractors and a good system, you will reap the benefits. Read an article about that the other day from a Mexican company. Try to keep structure very small, and contract out. I know a guy here who made a multi-million dollar business and 3 guys run it in 3 different countries.
 
The OP can't exactly outsource work that is being done in a hostel. There are companies here that will employ your employees here and you pay wages + service fee which in theory gives you some protection from lawsuits. I don't know the specifics on companies though, perhaps someone could recommend?

There are lots and lots of taxes here. Corp income tax is 35%. There are quite a few different taxes depending on your line of business and location. As El Queso said, employee costs are quite high if you're paying en blanco, which you really, really should not only from a moral/ethical perspective but also b/c I can guarantee you will get sued at some point and you can at least avoid the penalties.

My first line of advice would be reach out to expat hotel owners around here to get an idea as well as in Salta. They can give you some specific advice on hotels (my experience was with a company that provided services and was located onsite at clients so completely different structure).

Good luck. Doing business here is not for the faint of heart but it can be done successfully.
 
I will refrain from commenting on the wisdom of opening a low margin business in Argentina; here are the taxes you will have to pay:

-IVA (21%)
-Ingresos Brutos (3-4%)
-ABL (depends on if you own the building and/or what is in your rental contract)
- Cargas Sociales
-Sindicatos
-Ganancias (35% of any reported profit)

There are many other taxes/permits/insurances you need in Capital Federal which may or may not exist in Salta. As far as labor law/costs, severance pay is one months pay for every year employed plus one additional month of "preaviso". In addition, employees get 15 calendar days paid vacation, 21 days after five years of employment, and 28 days after ten years of employment.
 
Thanks for the responses but what Im really trying to figure out is how much of gross income is declared to senor impuestos.

Its clearly impossible to pay all the taxes with fully declared income for most businesses. Do businesses declare for example 50% or 60% of gross income and does the state realistically expect/tolerate most businesses to under declare by so much thus leaving you in peace to run a business?

Even when just hiring a part time cleaner I fail to see how any living can be made running a busy hostel in a rented property and paying more than 60% in taxes. And I know that people don't declare all their taxes.

thanks
 
Depends. I ran a business that was 100% in white, we declared every penny of income, paid every single penny of taxes due and we were still profitable. Not very but we were. Doing it otherwise wasn't an option for many reasons, not the least of which we were audited annually by EY.

If you're asking biz owners on a public forum to admit to a) fudging on their income taxes and B) what percentage, you're prob not going to get a lot of responses ;) Yes, many businesses do operate mainly in black. Typically they declare enough to be realistic, give them a reasonable income and the rest goes off of the books. But if one chooses to go that route, you had better be very smart and circumspect about it. Alternately, find yourself a very good accountant who will do everything possible to mitigate your burdens while still keeping you in white (or at least a pale shade of grey).
 
'If you're asking biz owners on a public forum to admit to a) fudging on their income taxes and B) what percentage, you're prob not going to get a lot of responses ;)''

Theres always ''I once knew a guy..'' , ''my friend...'' or ''I heard that....


''Yes, many businesses do operate mainly in black. Typically they declare enough to be realistic, give them a reasonable income and the rest goes off of the books. But if one chooses to go that route, you had better be very smart and circumspect about it. Alternately, find yourself a very good accountant who will do everything possible to mitigate your burdens while still keeping you in white (or at least a pale shade of grey)''

I would happily pay all taxes and have various employees all en blanco - if it was possible. You know contribute to the community and all that. Its crazy that 2 people (my wife and I) could work all hours of the day in a busy 10 bedroom hostel with just a pt cleaner and would be unable to pay tax. Silly country.

But I guess the thing that really swings it here is that I'm of the renter class....
 
I would *strongly* advise you to put your employees in white, even if you operate in grey. You WILL get sued at some point, that is a certainty. And when that happens, if the courts find out that person was in black, you are screwed. Not only are you going to pay the employee a boatload of money, you're going to pay all the money you saved by going in black + some in penalties.

It's really not that expensive to put someone in white (well, it is but it's expensive to have employees here period). Yes, you're paying the aguinaldo and severance but guess what, even if you pay in black, employees are going to expect that. You do have to pay their portion of taxes (which is only 17%). It will also mitigate your taxes.

Anyway, best of luck with your hostel, whatever route you decide to go.
 
citygirl is correct, you should put your employees in white which has real consecuences, but if you don´t pay your property taxes nothing will happen other than encruing interest and you will have to pay them before you sell your property.
you need to find an accountant you can trust, this is VERY important. As you figured out, there are many ways to do things but you will have to develop a close relationship with your accountant and decide which way to do things. All accountants will help you figure out ways to pay the least amount of taxes, but you yourself need to put the limits.
 
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