Cartoneros

[mini]

I sense a deprived childhood here, I think you need some lurv

Does anyone actually have an answer to the question, or is this to become just another bash the argies post??

I'm sorry, but I don't see this as a "bash the argies" thing. I also agree this is exploitation of these people & shouldn't be taken as Silver Star said "It's a form of recycling! As long as they don't leave a mess what's the problem... "

It is a problem. It's a social issue here in BA and not something we are "bashing the argies" about.

Now, I can't help with the uniforms because most of the cartoneros I see don't wear any such uniform. They were things that to me look like training pants, sweat pants and jeans. But, now that you metion it; I will look out for them & report back.

 

[betts]

This is probably a bit off subject, but being the good "german" that I am in Munich (the level of recycling there is unbelievable), I was sorting my bottles, plastics and paper here. We live in a high rise and there is a big trash can on every floor. So I was putting my plastic water bottles separate from the wine bottles and separate from cans in bags but outside of the regular trash. One day, I ran into the nice ladies that pick up the garbage each day and I asked them if there was re-cycling in our building. They looked puzzled and said no, but that once they threw the garbage from the building out (wherever that might be) people went through it and took out the bottles etc. So I asked wouldn't it be easier for them if we sorted it before throwing away. And the looks were even more puzzled, they nodded politely and said that would be nice, but not really necessary. I asked my spanish teacher about it and she said something about, my sorting took work away from those folks or something to that effect. Oh well, I still separate my garbage so at least when they find my bags all the plastics, glass and cans will be separate! Nothing probably really gets recycled but at least I feel better. For anyone that has lived in Germany, you would understand the guilt when throwing away something like a can of beans or a yogurt cup!

 

[EvergreenGal]

Betts I can so relate to your recycling issues....where I used to live in Washington state we had curb side recycyling ...paper, cans, cardboard, glass and even food waste...all picked up FREE!! I just can't stand what goes on here...people litter here and think nothing of it....makes me sick!!

But this is not the topic of the OP so I will stop now...

 

[BlahBlah]

And it's exploiting the workers with ridiculously low salaries. If the government had to put in place workers to do this they would have to pay much more. This way the government gets a recycling program by exploiting the poor.

The only problem is that the money does not go into the state pockets and that it creates social problems(black labour, slave like conditions, diseases, child labour, etc)

Macri did try to change things. He even tried to have cointainers for glass, paper and plastic and stuff. He also tried to implement a system that allowed a to collect the garbage within a small timeframe.

It's just a really big city and especially in the southern side of the city the infrastructure is not good for this and the people are not careing a lot about a clean enviorment

 

[BlahBlah]

I sense a deprived childhood here, I think you need some lurv

Does anyone actually have an answer to the question, or is this to become just another bash the argies post??

Great points!!!! Really mature !!!!!

 

[jp]

Prior to the cartoneros taking over the system, the government viewed taking rubbish to be recycled as theft, as the government were responsible for providing the service.

After the crash the number of cartoneros boomed, as people took to the streets looking for ways to make a living.

Seems sensible that the service is being brought back into the fold, hopefully this will see them getting paid better and the service more reliable. Its always been thorough and clean where we live, although in san telmo they seem to just shred the bins and leave the rubbish all over the street.

 

[wreReynolds]

To specifically answer your question, the uniforms are part of a government program to normalize the cartoneros by granting them specific territories and licenses. I am a journalist and ave doen several stories on Cartoneros and follwoed them around for a number of days. The progeam includes the Blue uniform you mentioned. It also gets them some benefits such as vacinations and some health care. But only a small percentage are in the program.
Yes the mafia (the guys who drive them in and out of the city and take their "product" to the depot extort them something terrible. That said the ones that work hard are earning about A$R1500/month, albiet they work bloody hard. Yes its sad, especially when you see 10 year old kids do it, but keep in mind that A$R1500/month is way about the minimum wage in this country there are a lot of people earning far less. Go to the north of the country and you will see real grinding poverty.
A lot has been done to improve the lot of the Cartoneros in recent years, primarily by NGOs. There are various coops, Porteros are getting cooperative - i.e. don't leave a mess and I'll save the cardboard for you.
Also many are illegals from Bolivia and Peru (nobody knows how many) and they certain will remain outside any of these programs.

 

[jimdepalermo]

Do you realize that the cartoneros have full social services - health, pension, etc?

The cartonero program deducts a small amount from the recycling fees to fund their benefits. How does that compare with people in thankless jobs in your home country?

I consider the low-end labor situation a mixed benefit. Of course, we feel bad for the people in menial jobs. But my housekeeper lives much better than in the Bolivian town where she grew up without schools, hospitals, potable water, reliable electricity, etc. As do most of the cartoneros.

The fundamental issue is Mercosur's requirement that people from any country can seek jobs within the entire Mercosur sphere. Since we live in one of the richest corners of the trade group, of course we attract poor laborers from abroad (as well as the poorer parts of Argentina). But they afford us a high standard of living while actually improving their living standard, in terms of basic housing, health care, retirement, and the like.

Definitely a mixed blessing.

-j

 

[BlahBlah]

Was the first line a joke?

 

[mini]

People who pick through trash outside late at night often with their spouses & children in tow & house cleaners is not really the same thing I'm afraid.