Changes to naturalization law in pipeline?

[ezl789]

Spoke to a (well regarded, in this forum's history) immigration lawyer today about pathways to naturalization. He said there was draft legislation before congress that would dramatically tighten ability to naturalize, so we should file without delay. Has anyone heard/read anything along these lines?

 

[MarshallE]

If you ask a barber do I need a haircut, the answer is always going to be yes

 

[ezl789]

That's a neat saying but unfortunately:

Abad propone la actualización de las condiciones para adquirir la ciudadanía

El senador nacional Maximiliano Abad (UCR) presentó un proyecto de ley para actualizar las condiciones y requisitos para adquirir la ciudadanía argentina, ya que “hoy es más f...

www.parlamentario.com

If anyone has any intel on how far it's gotten within the Senate committees (hasn't come to vote yet), would be very grateful.

 

[Quilombo]

This reminds me about laws to make it illegal to vote in the US for non-citizens, which is already a crime. Anyone on this forum who has naturalized (or is in the process of doing so) knows he is advocating something that is de facto enforced:

Proposed Amendment:

1. Be 18 years of age or older at the time of application. Already the case
2. Have, at least, two years of legal and continuous residence in the country, which must be immediately prior to submitting the application; with the exception of: those foreigners who have a native or chosen Argentine spouse and/or child and foreigners who are residing as refugees. Already the case more or less; good luck trying to naturalize in under 2 years, especially if you're not a legal resident with any form of DNI.
3. Have legitimate means of subsistence. This is already requested by most if not all judges.
4. Have basic knowledge of the national language. Maximiliano Abad is showing that despite being a Senator, he isn't well educated: Argentina does not have an official language (I realize he said national, but it is important to remember we have many national languages, and no official language, so which one is it Abad? Why doesn't he specify Spanish? Is it because he knows he can't? Why do I also have a feeling he'd be upset if the person spoke Guarani or Qom?), Anyways, this could likely be challenged in court, and has already been ruled unconstitutional previously in the case of Ni, I-Hsin, a Chinese national in which National Prosecutor Víctor Abramovich argued to the CSJN that while it's useful to be able to communicate in Spanish to live here, it's not obligatory, and the law requiring one to be able to do so is a relic of the dictatorship which has since been repealed.
5. Take an oath of loyalty to the Nation, the National Constitution and its laws. Already the case, you have 3 oaths to chose from, super catholic one, religious one, and the secular one.

It never ceases to amaze me that given all the problems Argentina has, people like Abad have nothing better to do than create make work projects that don't fix any problems, and only add bureaucracy to a process that is already incredibly bureaucratic. I'm convinced he doesn't know anybody who has naturalized because if he did, we would tell him that contrary to nationalistic racist boomer memes on Facebook, random people from Paraguay aren't flooding in and applying for citizenship with no intention of living here, it's all generally people who have changed their lives to live here and want to be full members of Argentine society, and the process is many things, but simple is not one of them.

 

[ezl789]

Thanks, lots of interesting points here.

I guess the most substantial points would be 2 & 3. Agreed that all of what you mention — legal residence, DNI, 2Y residence accumulated *prior* to application, means of subsistence — are routinely requested. But as such requests are unlawful (having no basis in law), they are also routinely struck down. So I guess what this proposal would do is establish legal basis for them. And possibly by extension, encourage further "criteria creep" from judges.

 

[MarshallE]

Thanks, lots of interesting points here.

I guess the most substantial points would be 2 & 3. Agreed that all of what you mention — legal residence, DNI, 2Y residence accumulated *prior* to application, means of subsistence — are routinely requested. But as such requests are unlawful (having no basis in law), they are also routinely struck down. So I guess what this proposal would do is establish legal basis for them. And possibly by extension, encourage further "criteria creep" from judges.

2 years of residence is defacto required nowadays to start a citizenship case. True, you can file your case anytime, but the paperwork does not start moving until the judge/secretary agree you qualify to apply. It's pretty much a waste of everyone's time to file a case before you have at least 23 months in the country as the secretary will do a bunch of paperwork just to tell you that you don't qualify, and then will archive your case.

 

[FallenAngel]

Thanks, lots of interesting points here.

I guess the most substantial points would be 2 & 3. Agreed that all of what you mention — legal residence, DNI, 2Y residence accumulated *prior* to application, means of subsistence — are routinely requested. But as such requests are unlawful (having no basis in law), they are also routinely struck down. So I guess what this proposal would do is establish legal basis for them. And possibly by extension, encourage further "criteria creep" from judges.

I am not sure where you are getting your information. I assume from Christian Rubilar who is a citizenshp lawyer trying to sell you a service. The reality is that very, very few people get citizenship without legal residency or having a baby in Argentina. Christian Rubilar has hundrerds (thousands?) of pending cases at the court for years and years all without citizenship.

The vast majority of his 1-2 dozen citizenship wins a year come from people with legal residency OR an argentine baby. If you do not fit that category, then it will be a lottery for you. You might be the 1% of cases that squeeze through because justice is arbitrary in Argentina, but most likely you will just sit at the court for years with your case not advancing.

I believe my post history has a few of his stranded cases. The reality is there are hundreds of victims of his lies. At any one time he is processing 3-500 cases yet only 10-30 receive citizenship a year. Like I said, most successes having legal residency or a baby.

Do not believe everything a lawyer salesman tells you!

 

[A Antares]

This reminds me about laws to make it illegal to vote in the US for non-citizens, which is already a crime. Anyone on this forum who has naturalized (or is in the process of doing so) knows he is advocating something that is de facto enforced:

Proposed Amendment:

1. Be 18 years of age or older at the time of application. Already the case
2. Have, at least, two years of legal and continuous residence in the country, which must be immediately prior to submitting the application; with the exception of: those foreigners who have a native or chosen Argentine spouse and/or child and foreigners who are residing as refugees. Already the case more or less; good luck trying to naturalize in under 2 years, especially if you're not a legal resident with any form of DNI.
3. Have legitimate means of subsistence. This is already requested by most if not all judges.
4. Have basic knowledge of the national language. Maximiliano Abad is showing that despite being a Senator, he isn't well educated: Argentina does not have an official language (I realize he said national, but it is important to remember we have many national languages, and no official language, so which one is it Abad? Why doesn't he specify Spanish? Is it because he knows he can't? Why do I also have a feeling he'd be upset if the person spoke Guarani or Qom?), Anyways, this could likely be challenged in court, and has already been ruled unconstitutional previously in the case of Ni, I-Hsin, a Chinese national in which National Prosecutor Víctor Abramovich argued to the CSJN that while it's useful to be able to communicate in Spanish to live here, it's not obligatory, and the law requiring one to be able to do so is a relic of the dictatorship which has since been repealed.
5. Take an oath of loyalty to the Nation, the National Constitution and its laws. Already the case, you have 3 oaths to chose from, super catholic one, religious one, and the secular one.

It never ceases to amaze me that given all the problems Argentina has, people like Abad have nothing better to do than create make work projects that don't fix any problems, and only add bureaucracy to a process that is already incredibly bureaucratic. I'm convinced he doesn't know anybody who has naturalized because if he did, we would tell him that contrary to nationalistic racist boomer memes on Facebook, random people from Paraguay aren't flooding in and applying for citizenship with no intention of living here, it's all generally people who have changed their lives to live here and want to be full members of Argentine society, and the process is many things, but simple is not one of them.

Thanks for posting that.