Citizenship by investment in Argentina

[Yury]

Congratulations for libertarian's victory! So progressive. So smart.

But in Coto I need to show my ID for a grocery from $20 in cash(!). No libertarians on this end.

 

[elhombresinnombre]

... But I noticed a pattern that Milei never actualized anything he said, he might fail this one too.

So a MACO, not a TACO then?

 

[aloevera]

Real spies will never do that, spend two years to get a passport in alternative 2 weeks for a visa to anywhere, usually a real spy is from the inside.
It's a rhetoric a few in power that's pushing people to believe into through recent decades.

Firstly, spies often need to get into countries legally somehow. This is why many spy agencies often falsify passports - the Mossad has notably done this many times. Another example, there was a case last year of some Russians using falsified Argentine documents while spying in Slovenia. However, some spies certainly find it convenient and even useful to naturalize in another country and use their new passport for spying activities, as the risk of their spying being traced back to whomever they're working for is somewhat lessened. Also, falsified documents are just caught very easily nowadays with more info in databases and information sharing increasing... this is why 2 years to naturalize could be attractive for some spies, as you would obtain a real and valid passport. With that said, however, many spies devote years, even decades, to secretly collecting information and silently passing it on to their handlers, while otherwise living a normal life. So it's better to not generalize based on what you think spies are/aren't doing.

Great way to devalue the Argentinian passport, though, and I don't mean in monetary terms.

I believe western countries already expressed concern about Argentinian nationality being used as a cover for spies, especially "sleepers". Selling nationality for the price of an apartment in Recoleta with a fake "national interest" justification isn't going to help very much, and visa-free travel for Argentinians might go away..

Another note regarding the devaluation of citizenship: potential revoking of EU/Schengen visa-free access. This would be very big, and very serious for Argentines, especially considering that many feel that the country is "blanca y europea" (lol). The European Council has already revoked Vanuatu's visa-free access due to their CBI programme, and EU bureaucrats regularly discuss revoking some Caribbean countries' visa-free access as well due to their programmes. Imagine if the elites of Recoleta and Palermo (who didn't obtain Italian citizenship in time) needed a visa to fly to Barcelona -- imagine the anger and rage against Milei LOL

 

[Johngwyn]

Firstly, spies often need to get into countries legally somehow. This is why many spy agencies often falsify passports - the Mossad has notably done this many times. Another example, there was a case last year of some Russians using falsified Argentine documents while spying in Slovenia. However, some spies certainly find it convenient and even useful to naturalize in another country and use their new passport for spying activities, as the risk of their spying being traced back to whomever they're working for is somewhat lessened. Also, falsified documents are just caught very easily nowadays with more info in databases and information sharing increasing... this is why 2 years to naturalize could be attractive for some spies, as you would obtain a real and valid passport. With that said, however, many spies devote years, even decades, to secretly collecting information and silently passing it on to their handlers, while otherwise living a normal life. So it's better to not generalize based on what you think spies are/aren't doing.

Another note regarding the devaluation of citizenship: potential revoking of EU/Schengen visa-free access. This would be very big, and very serious for Argentines, especially considering that many feel that the country is "blanca y europea" (lol). The European Council has already revoked Vanuatu's visa-free access due to their CBI programme, and EU bureaucrats regularly discuss revoking some Caribbean countries' visa-free access as well due to their programmes. Imagine if the elites of Recoleta and Palermo (who didn't obtain Italian citizenship in time) needed a visa to fly to Barcelona -- imagine the anger and rage against Milei LOL

Milei wouldn't be able to do so, plus elite can get a visa to Europe if needed, or else they have European passports already.

 

[Johngwyn]

Did you just describe the new proposed scheme? Though it's even better, citizenship, not a visa.

You didn't see this? https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/world/sleeper-agents-tell-russian-tv-about-living-under-cover.phtml

I don't think Milei should do it, not because I don't like the idea of CBI, but it sounds unconstitutional.

As for spy story, poeple only to believe what they want to believe.
But in the real world, you won't find a only English speaking White guy from mid-west spying in China and working for CIA.
And anyone potentially can be a spy which a real spy won't tell you, journalist, diplomat, student, tourist.

I don't see how is it fault for the couple born Russian and living as Argentine, or how Argentine citizenship facilitated their espionage actions.

 

[Johngwyn]

Firstly, spies often need to get into countries legally somehow. This is why many spy agencies often falsify passports - the Mossad has notably done this many times. Another example, there was a case last year of some Russians using falsified Argentine documents while spying in Slovenia. However, some spies certainly find it convenient and even useful to naturalize in another country and use their new passport for spying activities, as the risk of their spying being traced back to whomever they're working for is somewhat lessened. Also, falsified documents are just caught very easily nowadays with more info in databases and information sharing increasing... this is why 2 years to naturalize could be attractive for some spies, as you would obtain a real and valid passport. With that said, however, many spies devote years, even decades, to secretly collecting information and silently passing it on to their handlers, while otherwise living a normal life. So it's better to not generalize based on what you think spies are/aren't doing.

Another note regarding the devaluation of citizenship: potential revoking of EU/Schengen visa-free access. This would be very big, and very serious for Argentines, especially considering that many feel that the country is "blanca y europea" (lol). The European Council has already revoked Vanuatu's visa-free access due to their CBI programme, and EU bureaucrats regularly discuss revoking some Caribbean countries' visa-free access as well due to their programmes. Imagine if the elites of Recoleta and Palermo (who didn't obtain Italian citizenship in time) needed a visa to fly to Barcelona -- imagine the anger and rage against Milei LOL

How EU consider visa free arrangement is not what people commonly believed.
When EU signed collective visa free biateral agreement with OECS under CariCom in 2015, St.Kitts has already been operating its CBI for 32 years since 1983!

The EU has been abusive in rencent years by using threats and policy manipulation.
If what you said is true, then unfortunately Argentina may be their next target of bullying.

I do get your point, and I'm not saying its wrong. But how many Russian spies have actually been caught operating under Argentina’s system?

Saying that two years makes it easy to become a spy is cherry-picking. If you compare it to so-called 'stricter' countries like the U.S., the path from visa to green card takes years, and from green card to citizenship takes another 3 to 5 years depending on how it's obtained. Yet, former Nazis gained U.S. citizenship, members of Mexican cartels have become U.S. citizens, a Chinese tech spy who once worked for Coca-Cola got US citizenship, and even someone caught in the U.S. Army spying for China was naturalized through the honored service route.
My point is: anyone can be a spy. Whether someone is safe or not can't be judged solely by their citizenship or how they obtained it.

 

[QuilmesSlo]

It seems to be Argentina needs money while it ramps up its commodities exports. The program shouldn’t be needed by the time the EU starts to gripe.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

That would require a constitutional change, which would require a 2/3 vote in favor of the amendment(s) in the Senate and the Chamber of Deputies, as well as a constitutional convention. Do you think that's really going to happen?

DNU 366/2025 is nothing new. It is almost the same than Law 14.354 BUT they changed the National Constitution for doing so. Art. 15 CN creates criminal liability to any public officer who enforce the sales law {of slaves}. Slaves were sold by a ritual called triple emancipation: legal entry, legal residence, citizenship paid. This is why citizenship is for free and it is separated from immigration law. DNU 366/2025 is a slavery law. Art. 20 of CN band the administration to deal with citizenship while art. 116 says it is a matter of the Federal Justice while art. 99 bans the President from enacting laws while art. 109 bans the executive power to get involved in Federal Court business like citizenship because art. 75 inc. 12 of the CN says citizenship is a mater that only can be legislated by the Congress with criminal law.
The DNU 366/2025 makes of Argentina a totalitarian country because in a republican the power is separated.
I suggest everybody to apply for citizenship at Federal Courts, it is possible with any competent lawyer.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Did you just describe the new proposed scheme? Though it's even better, citizenship, not a visa.

You didn't see this? https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/world/sleeper-agents-tell-russian-tv-about-living-under-cover.phtml

Those spies bought citizenship at RENAPER as sons of argentines by Opcion de nationality. This is why it cannot be sold and it has to be at Federal Court because its procedure is design to prevent the infiltration of spies.

 

[aloevera]

art. 75 inc. 12 of the CN says citizenship is a mater that only can be legislated by the Congress with criminal law.

Huh, it turns out you're right! Here's the relevant section for anyone interested:

Capítulo Cuarto
Atribuciones del Congreso
Artículo 75- Corresponde al Congreso:
...
12. Dictar los Códigos Civil, Comercial, Penal, de Minería, y del Trabajo y Seguridad Social, en cuerpos unificados o separados, sin que tales códigos alteren las jurisdicciones locales, correspondiendo su aplicación a los tribunales federales o provinciales, según que las cosas o las personas cayeren bajo sus respectivas jurisdicciones; y especialmente leyes generales para toda la Nación sobre naturalización y nacionalidad, con sujeción al principio de nacionalidad natural y por opción en beneficio de la Argentina; así como sobre bancarrotas, sobre falsificación de la moneda corriente y documentos públicos del estado, y las que requiera el establecimiento del juicio por jurados.

So, did Milei just violate the Constitution with his DNU 366/2025? And are you saying that people should continue applying for citizenship at federal courts, despite what the DNU says? It also seems like the DNU may be null if I'm reading article 99, section 3 correctly?

Capítulo Tercero
Atribuciones del Poder Ejecutivo
Artículo 99.- El Presidente de la Nación tiene las siguientes atribuciones:
...
3. Participa de la formación de las leyes con arreglo a la Constitución, las promulga y hace publicar. El Poder Ejecutivo no podrá en ningún caso bajo pena de nulidad absoluta e insanable, emitir disposiciones de carácter legislativo. Solamente cuando circunstancias excepcionales hicieran imposible seguir los trámites ordinarios previstos por esta Constitución para la sanción de las leyes, y no se trate de normas que regulen materia penal, tributaria, electoral o el régimen de los partidos políticos, podrá dictar decretos por razones de necesidad y urgencia, los que serán decididos en acuerdo general de ministros que deberán refrendarlos, conjuntamente con el jefe de gabinete de ministros.

So, naturalization and citizenship laws are the responsibility of the Congress (the legislature) according to article 75, section 12, and according to article 99, section 3, the President can't "emit provisions of a legislative character". The question I have now though, is who will declare the DNU null - the Supreme Court?