Climate change: Dickering with chemistry and physics ...and losing badly.

#33
This climate change talk is all nice and dandy until you implement REAL policies to generate meaningful cut on carbon emissions. And I am not talking about switching your home lights to LED or driving electric cars. Those things don't do diddly squat on the big scheme of things, just make urban hipsters feel better about themselves. If governments really start doing what needs to be done to cut emissions on a scale that matters, the public response will make the riots that are happening in France right now will look like a picknick in comparison.

Fictional but quite accurate
 
#35
Did you bother to read the science? This is all kumbawa bullshit from politicians. Even if we achieved a 100% worldwide adoption of renewable energy generation, that would still not be enough. We need to achieve ZERO net emissions by 2040. ZERO. This means no more air travel as me know it. Global tourism? Gone, taking tens to hundreds of millions of jobs with it. No more steel mills as we know it. Washing machines (which require a lot of steel to make)? Gone. Global trade would have to be dramatically curtailed, meaning much higher prices of goods, a much smaller selection and staggering loss of jobs. And that are just a few of examples that come to mind.
These things are politically impossible to do as the societal disruption they would bring would be unimaginable .
But hey, if those "town hall" videos make you feel better, go for it.
 
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kmol

Registered
#36
Here's a short YouTube video (8 mins):

Merchants of Doubt: What Climate Deniers Learned from Big Tobacco

...about the full-length movie, Merchants of Doubt. You can find the whole movie on YouTube, among other places. Very well-made, and worth watching.

The point of the movie is that, in all the discovery documents from the many lawsuits in the US against tobacco companies, there are internal documents from the tobacco companies showing that their own studies showed that smoking caused cancer & showing that they strategically moved to delay the public from knowing this for decades in order to keep their sales up. The companies' internal documents openly discuss how they created doubt in the public's minds, paying dissenters to testify & confuse the issue.

The movie goes on to show the same people hired to create this doubt have moved on to work for other industries, including oil companies as climate change deniers. New industries are using the tobacco companies' playbook.

Please watch, and decide for yourself.

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Also, here is a thread of tweets from one of the authors of the report just released:


If you follow the link, you'll be able to see all of the points she posted in reply to this initial tweet. Addresses a lot of the points that are up for debate.

(What's nice about this scientist is that she is not interested in human civilization going back to the Stone Age. She's advocating for alternative solutions in order to keep technologically advanced civilization.)

Again, this only takes a few minutes to review, so decide for yourself.

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Finally, as discussed on other threads in this forum, mass movements of people are very destabilizing.

If, in the future, people move because of flooding, crop failures, or other problems, it's going to be very difficult to manage resettlement en masse.
 
#37
This climate change talk is all nice and dandy until you implement REAL policies to generate meaningful cut on carbon emissions. And I am not talking about switching your home lights to LED or driving electric cars. Those things don't do diddly squat on the big scheme of things, just make urban hipsters feel better about themselves. If governments really start doing what needs to be done to cut emissions on a scale that matters, the public response will make the riots that are happening in France right now will look like a picnic in comparison.
You're quite right. Which is why none of the politicians, states, big companies are willing to do anything about it. The most is ineffectual and symbolic measures like the Paris Agreement. It's the reason why Trump can't openly acknowledge the growing reality of accelerating climate change. We're hostages to the economic system that has been developed over the last century or so, which runs on fossil fuel.

The science behind climate change is established by now. If it didn't have implications for changing patterns of production, fuel use, and consumption, it would attract no more attention than quantum electrodynamics. But because it does have real-world implications, it becomes "controversial."

Here in the USA everyone with "skin in the game" is taking what measures they can -- that includes the Department of Defense, the cities of Miami and NYC (each of which is investing billions in flood mitigation), the oil majors (which are increasing the height of their offshore rigs from around 25 feet to eighty feet), and of course property insurance companies (which have been hard hit by storms and hurricanes on the East Coast).
 
#38
You're quite right. Which is why none of the politicians, states, big companies are willing to do anything about it. The most is ineffectual and symbolic measures like the Paris Agreement. It's the reason why Trump can't openly acknowledge the growing reality of accelerating climate change. We're hostages to the economic system that has been developed over the last century or so, which runs on fossil fuel.

The science behind climate change is established by now. If it didn't have implications for changing patterns of production, fuel use, and consumption, it would attract no more attention than quantum electrodynamics. But because it does have real-world implications, it becomes "controversial."

Here in the USA everyone with "skin in the game" is taking what measures they can -- that includes the Department of Defense, the cities of Miami and NYC (each of which is investing billions in flood mitigation), the oil majors (which are increasing the height of their offshore rigs from around 25 feet to eighty feet), and of course property insurance companies (which have been hard hit by storms and hurricanes on the East Coast).
unfortunately, many people believe the science is not established at all. or consider it fake, misleading, or intentionally skewed to fit an agenda.
 
#39
unfortunately, many people believe the science is not established at all. or consider it fake, misleading, or intentionally skewed to fit an agenda.
They're either industry shills or moronic laymen. But climate science would attract neither (and hence be like quantum electrodynamics) were it not for real world implications.