Deportations from Spain

[elhombresinnombre]

I'd be interested in comments - particularly from the periodista members of this site - about stories such as these:

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=1176640
http://www.clarin.com/diario/2009/09/24/um/m-02005470.htm

For those who CBA to follow the links these are the latest - only days apart - of a steady trickle of stories about Argentines being refused admission to Spain and being deported. On the surface they seem to be ordinary members of the public, neither stupid people who leave their documents at home nor failed illegal migrants because there's nothing newsworthy in people who deserve to be turned away and the radio and the papers continue to highlight this as a continuing problem. So what is going on?

I ask because it may be relevant to our Argentine husbands and wives, girlfriends and boyfriends, and if a situation flares up between Spain and Argentina over this and Argentina retaliates, it may become relevant to our own freedom to come and go.

 

[Rad]

Spain is in deep Depression, unemployment is predicted to reach 25%. They are a bit paranoid about people coming from "poorer" countries in South America.

 

[thebookcellar]

Recently my wife (Argentine) and I (English) went on a trip around Europe. Before we went she showed me a number of articles like these and at times was quite determined to make 'back-up' plans in case she got sent home. She was positive that Argentines were getting a raw deal as travellers.
We went, and arrived in Heathrow. I queued with her and i explained to the Immigration Officer that this was my wife and I wished to be there to help with any translation difficulties. We breezed through. We did see one Jamaican lady seperated from her daughter (7yrs old) each undergoing seperate questioning. A family of Asians were asked to wait. Others spent much more time at the desks than us.

We then 'budget-flew' around some of the major cities of Europe - barcelona, rome, venice, paris and back to london. In Europe she rarely got a second glance (because they were the small airports that only deal with European flights??) and sometimes did not even receive an entry stamp. In Rome there was noone on the desk. Coming back into London we repeated the process as in Heathrow. The Officer spoke directly to me and asked me about Argentina in a very friendly manner. All seemed genuine and we went through. Meanwhile a Chinese guy was asked for his friend's home address and phone numbers so she can verify that he will be staying in the flat with her during his stay as a STUDENT!

ok, so what do i want to say... Well, first, us with wifes, family etc etc, i think will never have a problem when travelling with our family. When not, keep documentation and phone numbers readily available. REstricted entry and deportation, i really feel, is not going to happen.

next. The papers report it as a continuing problem you say. That, in perhaps my very ignorant opinion, is because I believe the Argentines do love their 'everyone-is-out-to-get-us' stories and 'how-badly-are-we-treated-on-the-world-stage' type headlines. The insularity of the press here is astonishing and outrageous, proven by these weak articles. When in Barcelona we joked with the Argentines there that were living there - some illegally and some legally - about the best way to get into Europe. Most agreed that Frankfurt was the best way in. Madrid and London the most difficult. The Spaniards received a huge wave of immigrants in 2001, as a result of the crisis here, and politically it is still an issue (as is immigration in the States, England, Germany, BsAS etcetc) and so they must be seen to be cracking down on the illegals. By the attitude of the Argentines in Spain, perhaps they are right tobe severe.

I do not think Argentina will retaliate, but if they do, it will be against the Spanish - as the diplomatic spats over these things tend to go 'you slapped me, so i'll slap you' and never against an international community as a whole.

The articles did mention that 80% of the passengers on the Madrid flights are Argentine and so the number of people being sent home doesn't sound to bad. Again, an exaggeration and twisting of statistics - the journalist's friend.

IF you are a genuine tourist/visitor etc etc, you will have no problems. If you are honest and straight-down-the-line as 98% of the Argentine travellers are then you wont be bothered. And the same works for us foreigners and immigrnats here...

And finally. My parents both migrated to the UK (before i was born). Since before that time this argument has been raging in England and from what i have seen is that yes, the borders do become tighter and some regulations stiffer but really the story just remains a overly-dramatised incident by a journalist copying out too many quotes or a wannabe politician without a backbone.

 

[RWS]

. . . . The Spaniards received a huge wave of immigrants in 2001, as a result of the crisis here, and politically it is still an issue . . . . By the attitude of the Argentines in Spain, perhaps they are right tobe severe. . . .

Would you be so kind as to elaborate this observation?

 

[gouchobob]

Just a small point if you are denied entry to a country and are forced to return to your home country it's not a deportation as you never were admitted to the second country.

As to whats going on I'm sure it has to do with economic conditions in Spain and perhaps the belief of the Spaniards that people traveling from Argentina may be doing so to escape problems here and in don't in fact have the intention of returning to Argentina, but plan on staying in Spain illegally.

I believe Spain is one of the few countries in Europe someone from Argentina can travel to without a visa. I've read that about 300,000 Argentines ended up in Spain after the last crisis back in 2001. Up until that time they didn't need a visa to travel to the U.S. either, but this was changed due to a feared massive influx of people trying to escape the problems in Argentina.

Don't know but perhaps Spain will soon establish a visa requirement for citizens of Argentina.

I often what people are thinking that from time to time say they are seeking
(at least dual) citizenship in Argentina. I personally can't see the value in it as you can travel to very few countries outside of S.A. on an Argentine passport without a visa.

 

[thebookcellar]

Would you be so kind as to elaborate this observation?

We enjoyed many a conversation with Argentines in Barcelona who shared their methods in getting into Spain and staying there illegally. I worked in londons kitchens for a long time and there too the illegals who washed our dishes (wihtout them we would have no staff) were all quite boastful about their success in earning without actually existing in the country... thats the attitude i was implying.
I am, of course, aware that that is not the case for all people and there are genuine legal workers too...

 

[Liam3494]

gouchobob - Argentine citizens do not need a Visa for the European Union, well beyond Spain. Thats not to say you wont get quizzed upon entry into countries, in the same way I get questioned occassionally when travelling on my Irish passport.

As an example - My better half (who is Argentine) was questioned in January when making a flying visit to Ireland from London where she had been working - My business card (I work for an arm of the Irish Government) helped smooth her entry, but teh questions were quite vigorous, and her passport was stamped with an entry of only 4 days (the length of her visit). In July when we came home to ireland, she was waved through without any question at all - arriving this time from Madrid, rather than London.

I believe that sometimes it is pure bad luck if you get questioned, and can often depend on an individual border officer, as against local government policy. Bottom line, if you look like a refugee, you may well be considered one, if you look like a business person, or tourist, you will be treated as one. Maybe I am older than some of the ex-pats on here, but as a frequent overseas (non-visa) traveller, I only ever had bother when a little younger and travelling between England and Ireland during "the Troubles".

 

[thebookcellar]

I believe that sometimes it is pure bad luck if you get questioned, and can often depend on an individual border officer, as against local government policy.

100% true - when my better-half-Argentine-wife and i travelled the British Embassy's website states that the issue is convincing the Immigration Officer you randomly meet that your intentions are good. There is no real legislation, only guidelines...

 

[gouchobob]

gouchobob - Argentine citizens do not need a Visa for the European Union, well beyond Spain. Thats not to say you wont get quizzed upon entry into countries, in the same way I get questioned occassionally when travelling on my Irish passport.

As an example - My better half (who is Argentine) was questioned in January when making a flying visit to Ireland from London where she had been working - My business card (I work for an arm of the Irish Government) helped smooth her entry, but teh questions were quite vigorous, and her passport was stamped with an entry of only 4 days (the length of her visit). In July when we came home to ireland, she was waved through without any question at all - arriving this time from Madrid, rather than London.

I believe that sometimes it is pure bad luck if you get questioned, and can often depend on an individual border officer, as against local government policy. Bottom line, if you look like a refugee, you may well be considered one, if you look like a business person, or tourist, you will be treated as one. Maybe I am older than some of the ex-pats on here, but as a frequent overseas (non-visa) traveller, I only ever had bother when a little younger and travelling between England and Ireland during "the Troubles".

I stand corrected, Argentines can travel to more countries without a visa than I thought.

 

[Lucas]

I personally can't see the value in it as you can travel to very few countries outside of S.A. on an Argentine passport without a visa.

That is totally incorrect, Argentine passports are one of the most locked for the black market because of their exempt from visa requirement so if you got one, lock it up.

Para que paises necesito VISA si soy argentino?