En Blanco vs En Negro, being on the radar in general & driving

[jago25_98]

I've been reading various thread over the years and I can see that there are many reasons to do thing in the white... but also many reasons to do things in the black.

However, there are shades of grey all the way between.

I'm in the fortunate position where I can choose to go on the radar if I want to... but I think it might be better not to. I just can't decide. There's a scale of being on the radar and I'm not sure exactly how much I might want to commit to Argentina. Perhaps it's best if I commit nothing at all. But if I do that can I drive? Can I own land? But do I want to anyway?

I work abroad and commute to BA as a tourist, living with my girlfriend. My income is completely outside Argentina but this means I'm dependent on being able to transfer money in. I sometimes worry what would happen if that network failed to work anymore but for the most part I can see that this is a good state to be in.

But how long can this permatourist arrangement go on? What would I do if I wasn't allowed back into the country when immigration sees my 12 stamps in my passport?

In a sense I think the outlook is good because I'm bringing money into the country... but the lockdowns and protectionism is worrying. It's not ideal.

So then there's the other end of the scale. I could open a bank account. I could get work teaching English. I could even register that en Blanco. I could buy a car. I could own property. But... that property will be taxed. That wage will be taxed. The car puts me on the radar.

Are they ways to drive economically without a DNI? Are there ways to get by without being on the radar? Is it worth it? My girlfriend tried to persuade me to drive her mothers car a while a go. How can I do this without a lot of paperwork?

Are you familiar with the SovereignMan movement? Putting aside your thoughts on the subject we have to admit that it is a great source of legal education. A key pivot of the idea is that documents such as driving licenses, birth certificates and passports are contracts against you as a company (not actually you but your legal entity). As such, some people have turned in those documents, breaking the contract with their country and the benefits they provide. The question is, are those benefits worth it? Bear in mind that this legal JuJitsu is hard to achieve in the countries that base their law on the English system such as the USA but we are in a country basing it's law on the Spanish system. However, I think if there are no documents on me as I enter the country then there are parallels. By handing in that passport at the border we are agreeing to a contract. If someone sneaks over the border into the country how is that dealt with legally? I would hazard a guess that the illegal needs to be coerced into signing something.

Now, what would happen if your USA passport wasn't the global passport it is now? Would there be advantage in getting an Argentine passport? Of course it would be preferable to not have either... but has anyone managed to take an international flight and cross borders without one?

How on the radar do you go and what benefits has it provided you with? Was it worth it?
For those of you who are running cash etc, what drawbacks and benefits have you seen?

Please keep the discussion pragmatic. No politics please.

 

[CanadaBoy]

Well I do not have time to get into the SovereignMan idea, which I am intrigued by FWIW, just wanted to say that an Argentine owner of a car can authorize anyone to drive their car via a Cedula de Identification para Autorizado a Conducir. My wife and father in law, who are DNI-bearers, simply signed me up using my gringo Driver License number as my "Cedula". It took a few days and presto a license-like document appeared in the mail. Whether this gets me "on a list" somehow, I do not know for sure; but thus far, nothing.

To my knowledge, obtaining a bank account, or even a second credit card on an Argie's account, requires a DNI. I have no desire to obtain one and see very limited benefit. I bring $9900 with me on every entry, and this lasts quite a while and is about the size of two packs of playing cards. There are also informal bankers who have accounts in the US that you can transfer to, and they will pay you out in USD or pesos at black-market rates here if you want to move a lot or do not travel regularly.

 

[CanadaBoy]

As to how often you can come in/out as a "tourist", I have dozens of stamps in my passport and have never had a single question from the staff at EZE or AEP. And when my wife and I moved here last year I told the consulate that although she was moving "officially" I was not and would go in/out indefinitely as a tourist. She official shrugged and implied I was far from the first.

 

[citygirl]

Giving you answers to the factual question (the whole soverign man thing is beyond the pale for me)
1) As discussed, you do not need residency or a DNI to drive a car here. You don't even need a local driver's license. If it's a car you are going to be driving regularly, simply have the owner of the car fill out the authorization paperwork.
2) You in fact don't need residency or a DNI to buy a house, car or anything else. A DNI will lessen your tax on the house (I think that comes into play when you sell).
3)With regards to the perma-tourist, I will say that I know people who have been living as perma-tourists here for years and years and years and nary a peep has ever been said to them. Doesn't mean it's an absolute certainty but it wouldn't personally be a worry for me.
4) Why on earth would you want a bank account here, esp given the current instability? I don't know any locals that keep more than a nominal sum in the banks here.

All of the above being said, I always think it's a great idea to get residency if you can. Residency isn't a life-time commitment. And it does make life easier. And having DNI would allow you to get credit cards which offer some great discounts when purchasing things. 15 or 20% off groceries, clothes, goods, etc is a pretty hefty discount!


(But even with residency, I still wouldn't open a bank account or keep my money in the banks here I operate on a cash basis. Makes life much easier/safer/cost-effective if you have dollars and can take advantage of blue rate)

 

[Lobo Marino]

As far as I understood you are not permanently staying in Argentina, but commuting for work out of the country on a frequent basis...? If this is so, you are en blanco as a tourist. You can drive with an international driving license, just make sure the car insurance will cover you as well. If your girlfriend is Argentine you can do everything in her name (registering a car, telephone, bank account etc).

I am in a similar situation, working in different places abroad (mostly Europe) and commuting to Argentina to see my fiancee in between on tourist visas (staying a total of 4-8 months on up to 10 entries/year). I do this since eight years and never got questioned about it at migraciones. Everything we do and own in Argentina runs on her name, including our own property, car, service bills and a local bank account - yes, this does require a high level of trust.

I never considered myself being en negro nor any shade of grey here, since I am perfectly legal spending my free time as a tourist.

 

[arlean]

Unless something has changed, you don't need a DNI to open a bank account. You need a Certificado de Residencia (but the bank would tell you that if you go and try to open an account). You give the police 10 pesos and your address and they come and verify that you do indeed live there and hand you the certificate. Things do change here and that may be out of date but that's how it was a few years ago. When I got mine the first time the address I gave was a hospedage. Didn't matter. I got it.

Agreed about banking though. I do bring money in from the US to live on. Anyone have a better suggestion? The rate of exchange sure isn't the best.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Well, there are some differences.

1) about avoiding to pay taxes, there is no difference between being a PT, a LR or a citizen.
If you sell your real state, its the same being PT or LR, both have to pay a lot in taxes to sell it. Citizens don t have to pay more than 1.5%.

2) if you have problems with the criminal law, then there is a huge difference. You can be injailed before the trial only if you don t have roots here (they asume you are going to escape and you wait for trial in jail). It is very difficult to evidence that you are going to escape, but the whole permatourist idea evidence that you cheat the system in the past and they can use it to evidence that you are going to try to cheat the criminal procedure in future. This is according to the precedents of the federal chamber. If you are a LR, you can wait for trial in freedom. You can sign a plea bargaining but it means you get deported. Being a citizen, plus, you can sign a probation (if you behave you keep a clean criminal record. There is no deportation of citizens.

3) being a PT allow you to rent temporary appartments that are very expensive. lR allow you to a 2 years contract but probably expensive. Citizenship allows you to long term rental at local prices.

Right now there is a tolerance policy about PT but it might change if there are too many immigrants from europe. El pais published an article proposing argentina as an immigration destination for unemployed Spaniards.
Regards

 

[citygirl]

3) being a PT allow you to rent temporary appartments that are very expensive. lR allow you to a 2 years contract but probably expensive. Citizenship allows you to long term rental at local prices.

Um..what? Renting long-term (usually) requires a guarantia and has nothing to do with your residency status. Anyone (perma-tourist, temp resident, permanent resident or citizen) can rent a long-term, unfurnished property at "local" prices provided he or she has someone willing to act as guarantia. Or sometimes a guarantia isn't even required if the person is willing to pay up front.

 

[jago25_98]

Well, there are some differences.

1) about avoiding to pay taxes, there is no difference between being a PT, a LR or a citizen.
If you sell your real state, its the same being PT or LR, both have to pay a lot in taxes to sell it. Citizens don t have to pay more than 1.5%.

2) if you have problems with the criminal law, then there is a huge difference. You can be injailed before the trial only if you don t have roots here (they asume you are going to escape and you wait for trial in jail). It is very difficult to evidence that you are going to escape, but the whole permatourist idea evidence that you cheat the system in the past and they can use it to evidence that you are going to try to cheat the criminal procedure in future. This is according to the precedents of the federal chamber. If you are a LR, you can wait for trial in freedom. You can sign a plea bargaining but it means you get deported. Being a citizen, plus, you can sign a probation (if you behave you keep a clean criminal record. There is no deportation of citizens.

3) being a PT allow you to rent temporary appartments that are very expensive. lR allow you to a 2 years contract but probably expensive. Citizenship allows you to long term rental at local prices.

Right now there is a tolerance policy about PT but it might change if there are too many immigrants from europe. El pais published an article proposing argentina as an immigration destination for unemployed Spaniards.
Regards

I think I'm gonna go for residency & Cedula de Identification para Autorizado a Conducir. Keeping cash outside the country, using various methods to transfer it in. Using effectivo. Could use a bank account for paying bills if I want to but will try to avoid that.

Thanks for all the advice people

 

[John.St]

But how long can this permatourist arrangement go on? What would I do if I wasn't allowed back into the country when immigration sees my 12 stamps in my passport?

Never had a problem with now 52 stamps, except once when I left Argentina, I was asked what I was doing in the country.

On this board is (at least) one member who have been a tourist for 11 years.

While one can never know about whimsy Argentine politics, the permatourists actually transfer (import) a considerable sum in much needed foreign currency.

As for residency, read Bajo_cero2's post about obtaining Argentine citizenship if/when you have been here for two years - provided your home country allows dual citizenship.