Everything You Love You Owe to Capitalism

[EdRooney]

OK so your argument then is not that everything we love is due to the free market. It would seem your contention is rather: sure everything we love is this public/private mix, but if it were to be completely private in some kind of non-existent utopia where public resources could somehow be taken completely out of the equation, then it would somehow be more efficiently managed. And this is all in spite of the fact that largely privatised systems such as the trains here or health care in the US have led to giant blood sucking bureaucracies with less public oversight yielding higher costs and worse results.

And I think your Wright Bros example is spot on. Sure the brothers (proud products of the Kitty Hawk public school system) should get much credit for their work; but that has so little to do with the majority of the technology on today's jets, which is mostly the product of either US or German Air Force research, or from Boeing and its $5 billion/yr of my tax dollars.

 

[camberiu]

OK so your argument then is not that everything we love is due to the free market.

That is the the title of the article, which the author made it controversial probably on purpose, not my argument.

It would seem your contention is rather: sure everything we love is this public/private mix, but if it were to be completely private in some kind of non-existent utopia where public resources could somehow be taken completely out of the equation, then it would somehow be more efficiently managed.

I am not an anarchist. Government does have an important role to play. I just question the idea that technological/industrial development *requires* or benefits from government intervention.

And this is all in spite of the fact that largely privatised systems such as the trains here or health care in the US have led to giant blood sucking bureaucracies with less public oversight yielding higher costs and worse results.

I hope you are not implying that Amtrak is a private enterprise. Also, healthcare in the US is HIGHLY regulated. The HMOs that everyone rightful hates today could not exists without the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973

And I think your Wright Bros example is spot on. Sure the brothers (proud products of the Kitty Hawk public school system) should get much credit for their work;

They actually never completed high school. And the South at the time was hardly an example or a role model of modern compulsory public education.

but that has so little to do with the majority of the technology on today's jets, which is mostly the product of either US or German Air Force research, or from Boeing and its $5 billion/yr of my tax dollars.

Again, you are assuming that because government funded it, this technology could not/would not have been developed by someone else better and cheaper. The airplane or the light bulb are great examples of the contrary.

 

[PhilinBSAS]

Including this board, the Internet, Google and even Pr0n. Great article.
http://mises.org/daily/2982/Everything-You-Love-You-Owe-to-Capitalism

Yes a well balanced and reasoning organisation known for critical historical research

You will also enjoy this

http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/each-day-capitalism-kills-far-more-innocents-than-died-on-911/

 

[arlean]

Camberia is right. Of course we are not talking love, honor, courage, but most things that have benefitted us are the result of capitalism. We could also call it the free market. America, through most of their history, has been capitalist. But that has changed.

The problem right now is people are all mixed up about definitions. They see fascism and think that is capitalism. It is not. Capitalism is the state where you can work hard, save your money, learn some skills, start your own business and you have the freedom to make a profit and become successful. Everyone is on a relatively level playing field.

Fascism is where corporations manage to work their way into the government until they have control of the country, use legislation to their advantage and to eliminate competition and are then free to plunder. At one time in the U.S., any poor boy who was willing to work and learn could be successful. Now regulations make that pretty difficult unless you are already among the privileged. I'll give you an example.

The weapon of the corporations is socialism. Fascists love socialism because they can use it effectively to build their power in government. They know if they promise goodies that will be paid for (the ignorant believe) by others, people will vote for them. And they do. It doesn't matter to them if they bankrupt the country or whatever, they can just move on to the next opportunity. They buy their way to power through socialism and the promise of OPM (other people's money). This is why corporations love socialism. It is the road to power for them. Here is a low-level example of how it works. But the same principal works on a grand level as well once they have power.

As a widow with two children, I once owned a small seafood business. I bought live crabs wholesale from fishermen and sold them retail from my home which happened to be in commercial zoning on a major highway. Later included clams. But those things are cyclical. So I decided to expand to fresh fish, putting them in a showcase, and cleaning them for customers. Please notice, not cook, just clean.

Well you wouldn't believe the investment I would have had to come up with. It would include women's and men's restrooms, stainless walls and I won't go into it all. There was kind of a seafood mafia and these regulations were not necessary at all, but they effectively kept out competition. I finally closed that down. Their strategy works.

Now the U.S. has progressed to the point where the entire country is controlled by these corporations. But that is not capitalism. That is destructive of capitalism and enslaves people to the corporations.

Even when I was a young adult in the U.S. people still understood the destructive effect of socialism as opposed to capitalism. I'm a lot older than you guys but born after social security went in. My husband's grandfather was a farmer who had lost both legs and operated from a wheel chair. When the government agents came to sign him up for social security he literally ran them off his farm. He told them they were going to bankrupt the country. In short, although handicapped, he refused it. My own grandparents were the same. But gradually it has progressed to the point where few understand the meaning of free enterprise, free market and capitalism. Most of the people in the world now want socialism. They think they can be free and still be dependent on the government. That is one of the last stages of empire, as most of you may know--dependence.

 

[expatinowncountry]

Everyone is on a relatively level playing field.

This is the funniest thing I read in 2012 so far.

It ignores for instance how capitalism started. There are two theories (i) mercantilism with the charted trading companies (ie East and West India companies) where I would argue that the playing field was not leveled between the colonies and the central powers (ii) With the enclosure of the commons and separation of the producers from the means of production in the early industrialization period in GB. So since the really beginning the playing field has not been level and we do not come all to the world with the same opportunities, no matter how hard we work. The corporations and relations of power you criticize (and with good reasons) are part of a historical reinforcing process that is at the heart of capitalism.

On a side note, please look to the definition of fascism in the dictionary and you will see that by definition it opposes socialism.

I love capitalism, I love economic freedom, I love innovation and I would love to have a relatively level playing field but please try to distinguish between how things are and how things you wish they were if you want to have a powerful argument.

 

[arlean]

I guess it depends on your sense of humor, Expat, whether it's all that funny.

But I can read history. Aspiring fascists promote and use socialism to get the people behind them so that they can gain power. However, with all due respect, different opinions help us think things through-which is a good thing. I will never post anything here that suggests that you are laughable, nor that what you are saying is to ridicule. I consider what you say seriously. I view you and every other poster here with respect. I am aware that I don't know everything--yet.

I didn't suggest that things were perfect. There have always been evil and/or power-hungry people trying to gain control in America. Sadly it is the nature of man. That's why we need safeguards against it and that's why we need to understand it. Otherwise we are not likely to defend ourselves until it is too late.

Our Constitution was designed, among other things, to promote the free market with power diversified and not concentrated in the central government. The way it was set up, if your state became oppressive, you could vote with your feet and thus keep everyone in line.

Sadly Americans gave that up. We criticize congressmen for selling out. But we sold out too. And most of us didn't even see it coming. Any of us with any education knew that much of what the central government was doing was unconstitutional. The powers of the central government are very limited and very specific. It says clearly that any power not given to the federal government in the Constitution was reserved unto the states. It doesn't take a real high IQ to understand that. But it appeared that if we compromised, we would get free stuff that someone else would have to pay for. The government would take care of us.

 

[expatinowncountry]

Well expat, I guess it depends on your sense of humor. But I can read history and I do.

Aspiring fascists do not oppose socialism. They promote and use it to get the people behind them so that they can gain power. However, with all due respect, different opinions can make us think-which is a good thing. I don't consider you laughable, expat, and I will never post anything here that suggests that you are, nor that what you are saying is something to ridicule. I pay attention to your viewpoint and I take you seriously. I view you and every other poster here with respect. I am also aware that I don't know everything--yet.

I didn't suggest that things were perfect. There have always been evil and/or self-centered people trying to do exactly what the fascists are doing now. Sadly it is the nature of man. That's why we need safeguards against it and that's why we need to understand it so that we will maintain those safeguards. Not give them up for some promised benefit.

Our Constitution was designed, among other things, to promote the free market with power diversified and not concentrated in the central government. The way it was set up, if your state became oppressive, you could vote with your feet and thus keep everyone in line.

Sadly Americans gave that up. We criticize congressmen for selling out. But we sold out too. And most of us didn't even see it coming. Any of us with any education knew that much of what the central government was doing was unconstitutional. The powers of the central government are very limited and very specific. It says clearly that any powers not given to the federal government in the Constitution are reserved unto the states. It doesn't take a real high IQ to undersand that. But it appeared that if we compromised, we would get free stuff that someone else would have to pay for. The government would take care of us.

Just in case I was not clear enough... I do agree with you on the ideal of free market and how the system has been perverted. I also agree with you that governments go a long way to preserve the existing relations of power and that most of those measures go against us, the simple citizens (and that it is partially our fault).

My point is that if you make capitalism god (maybe not the best example since I am agnostic) and do not recognize its limitations and some of its defining (less than ideal) characteristics your argument loses a lot of value what is really a pity because you are saying some very interesting things. Same if you use fascism and socialism definitions as you please instead of using their actual meaning.

I do not think you need to read history or have a real high IQ to understand that the playing field is NOT leveled at all. Just some traveling with your eyes wide open would be more than enough.

On a side point, there is a tension in the system coming from the fact that we innovate to have special profits/power. Take the case of our beloved Apple Corp. They create all those beautiful gadgets because it gives them some market power. You could argue that the government allows this corporation to have a dominant position through the property rights/patent system but without this the incentives to innovate would be rather low. So, like most things in life, it is about striking the right balance.

 

[arlean]

Alexander Fraser Tytler, a European historian published The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic. Tytler reported that from his research he had determined the following:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government (that's why the U.S. was founded as a republic). It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury . . . with the result that a democracy always collapses over a loss of fiscal responsibility, always followed by a dictatorship. The average of the world's great civilizations before they decline has been 200 years. These nations have progressed in this sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back again to bondage."

It isn't hard to see that the U.S. is on the same path. Norman Thomas with his prophesy of the fall of American democracy and the mechanism that would be used: "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism (yeah because we will not admit that it IS socialism). But under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.

(My end note: History bears this out, not just in Athens. Right now almost half of the U. S. citizens are dependent on a government that is probably at the end of the cycle--bankrupt. Think of the chaos: you have those dependent on Social security, welfare, medicare, medicaid, goverment employees, state employees, city employees, military, unemployment, food stamps. So at what stage of progression is the U.S. at that rate?)

I think there's no way we can get a grip on this without a good understanding of world history. A dictionary definition won't do it. I'm not using definitions as I choose. I am stating honestly what happens. And if it has always happened before in great nations, I don't see any reason to think that the U.S. is going to escape unless they recognize what they are doing and make a pretty fast turnaround.

Capitalism is not my God. Only God is my God. But my code of ethics includes liberty and personal responsibility. You can't have one unless you also have the other is what I believe. I do understand that you agree to a degree. We aren't totally on different pages. ;D

 

[scottlyon]

I'm so happy that capitalism is bought and paid for progressive communism.

Thanks China!

Not bad masters so far as luck would have it.

 

[jp]

That article is the ramblings of a crank. It has the fervour and unshakeable conviction of a religious rant.

Socialism vs capitalism - both systems have their merits. Opponents of socialism and its "unparalleled human evils" don't have to look very far to find prosperous happy nations where citizens enjoy unparalleled quality of life thanks to the provision of state services. And equally, supporters of capitalism don't have to look very hard to see the misery that it creates.

I actually quite enjoy reading pieces like these. It can be refreshing to read what other people think and have your beliefs challenged. But this guy is only really capable of preaching to the choir.