Expats and Alcohol

[arty]

Objectiveous,
While your points are valid,can you really apply western theory to Latin American Life?.Personally I think not,

Prices are dictated here not by drug induced idiots more so exaggerated addicts with an affluence towards pushing the boundary's of the common thought of happiness....example> my ideal life is sitting on the beach with a cocktail looking at the best life has to offer....Reality....I have cheap accomadation,I dont need to work right now and as a release I will have a beer... or ten...in the sun.

Its been a while but last time I checked,purchase price of Alcohol as against sale is about 350 per cent in bars....We all know we can go to a supermercado to buy a cheap litro but we don't,We are all exaggerated addicts,myself included with a need for social interraction.

While elasticity /inelasticity exists in many countrys I beg to differ on the argentine front.The mentality here is chance.Try it for a week and if it works or not change it,,

Later R

K

speak for yourself, I prefer to drink at home or a friend's house. I hate paying 12+ pesos a pint or 15 pesos a can at a party.

But then again, I'm an alcoholic.

 

[keech]

I'll be first to put my hands up as an alco,
I prefer the cheap option but always fall back to the classic pub routine..

K

 

[objectiveous]

Objectiveous,
While your points are valid,can you really apply western theory to Latin American Life?.Personally I think not,

Prices are dictated here not by drug induced idiots more so exaggerated addicts with an affluence towards pushing the boundary's of the common thought of happiness....example> my ideal life is sitting on the beach with a cocktail looking at the best life has to offer....Reality....I have cheap accomadation,I dont need to work right now and as a release I will have a beer... or ten...in the sun.

Its been a while but last time I checked,purchase price of Alcohol as against sale is about 350 per cent in bars....We all know we can go to a supermercado to buy a cheap litro but we don't,We are all exaggerated addicts,myself included with a need for social interraction.

While elasticity /inelasticity exists in many countrys I beg to differ on the argentine front.The mentality here is chance.Try it for a week and if it works or not change it,,

Later R

K

Oh, you rascal. ;-)

The question was "Is price really the determining factor in people's consumption..."? Everywhere and always the answer is yes. There is a price, possibly quite high, at which you will no longer purchase that cocktail on the beach or that bottle of Malbec. It's also true that as prices drop, you

Now, I'm *not* saying that culture does not have an effect on drinking habits, or that expats might tend to seek camaraderie over a beer more so than non expats. What I am saying is that price has major effect on consumption and, here in Argentina, the price is low when you consider the relative affluence of the typical expat.

Oh, and not meaning to offend, but I can't bring myself to consider students or 20 somethings dependent on their parents as expats.

Regarding your comment on "western theory" and Argentina. First, Argentina, perhaps more than any other Latin American country, is very much a part of the western tradition. Second, although conditions here are different from our home countries, the rest of it, for the most part, is not - heritage of social norms, ethical values, traditional customs, religious beliefs, political systems, and specific artifacts and technologies.

Now that we've cleared that up, where did I put that glass of wine...

 

[arockwell11]

This situation is not limited to Buenos Aires. It's the same in here Rio de Janeiro, or Costa Rica, or Thailand, etc.. Anywhere you have people, especially older guys with too much time on their hands, and no reason not to drink too much.

If you don't have to get up early in the morning and go to work with a clear head to earn money, then you don't have a clear reason not to over indulge.

If you're already receiving your monthly income and don't to have to work, you're at risk of this. I've seen it everywhere I've traveled.

 

[Ailujjj]

I actually think I'm drinking less here than at home, which surprises me plenty. I drink little if at all at home (a glass of wine here and there) (where I live alone) - only out for dinners, with friends, or at lounges/clubs. Here, I have a roommate who doesn't drink much, plus the heat, and the bars and clubs we drink very little as well - which is amazing when you consider the nights end at 6 AM or so.

That said, I think this thread makes a central assumption that leads it in the wrong path: Social and economic factors lead expats to drink more once living abroad.

I think these factors are secondary - but in fact that the type of people inclined to pack up their lives and live in another country are inclined to be bonvivants, open to new experiences and not conservative in terms of alcohol to begin with. Put them in the context where they can indulge this inclination and they will.

Fundamental attribution error: We think the behaviour of others is the result of their personality/internal factors - but we think our own is due to situations/ external factors. I don't think it's living abroad - I think it's the people living abroad.

 

[GreenLeaf]

I drink more here than at home, but again that's usually because I don't have a car here and it's cheaper. When I'm not driving at home, I've been known to put away a few units but here I'm drinking wine more evenings than I'm not. We've decided to try and keep it to weekends only for the time being as it can't be good for us or our waistlines but did cave in one night this week.

With regards to Argentina not having the same problems with drunkenness and and antisocial behaviour as they do in our home countries, I have seen programmes on TV here showing people falling out of boliches unable to walk, or put a coherent sentence together and on one they showed a girl getting into a car to have sex with a guy she'd just met on the street. So though it might be a newer phenomenon here, it is going to be as much of a problem as it is in Cardiff or anywhere in else in the UK/Europe. It's what comes with a disposable income, and freely available cheap alcohol. If you watch the news here over the summer, you'll be guaranteed to see a slot on the problem of young people getting drunk in Mar del Plata for the next two or three months. You might not see this in most parts of Palermo or Belgrano or Recoleta, but it happens and is going to be an increasing problem here. Why do you think they've just introduced new laws on selling alcohol at boliches and from kioskos - just to stop the gringos drinking?

 

[perry]

People must really venture out to the provinces and see the anti social and sexual free for all that alcohol creates for young argentines.

Argentina is not Recoleta, Palermo, Belgrano and a few more neighbourhoods . The reality people here drink a lot and with nearly as much vigor as the northern europeans.

 

[tangobob]

Oh, you rascal. ;-)

The question was "Is price really the determining factor in people's consumption..."? Everywhere and always the answer is yes. There is a price, possibly quite high, at which you will no longer purchase that cocktail on the beach or that bottle of Malbec. It's also true that as prices drop, you

Now that we've cleared that up, where did I put that glass of wine...

I refer the honorable gentleman back to the girls in Cardiff. If price were the only consuderation, then the UK (almost the most expesive booze in Europe) would not have the worst problems with alcohol.

Have a glass for me while you are at it.

 

[Ries]

I have personally encountered extreme drunks on buses in Seattle and Los Angeles, and on light rail in San Jose, Phoenix, LA, and other places.
And in general, in most downtown US cities, I have seen huge amounts of pathetically drunk people on a regular basis- usually homeless people, who are also often mentally ill, and on drugs- but if you have ridden public transport in the US, and never come across a stinking drunk- you are a lucky person.
In my work, I have worked on public transportation projects all across the West, spending sometimes days on end at stations of light rail, and the daily stream of drunkeness is quite common. Spend a few days in downtown Phoenix, for example, and you will find a resident homeless drunk population of hundreds. There is the swearing lady, the wheelchair drunk, the jovial cowboy, and many more, you get to know as they harangue and panhandle and hustle every day.


In any city the size of BsAs in North America, there are ten times as many belligerent drunks on the streets, night and day, as in Argentina.

I dont doubt for a minute that people in Argentina get drunk- of course they do. But not in the quantity, or "quality", that happens in the USA, or Canada, or Great Britain.

Part of this phenomonen, too, could be the fact that Argentina has a functioning health care system- in the USA, many of the street drunks have severe mental and physical health problems, and there is usually no social services or medical services for them. Or homes, for that matter- say what you will about Villas- they are a functioning escape valve for squatting homeless people, who sleep under the freeway in Seattle or LA.
An estimated 10,000 people sleep on the sidewalk every night east of downtown LA. I lived there for ten years, I have seen them with my own eyes.
About half the homeless in the USA are veterans, as well, and a third of those, women. PTSD is rampant, and self medication the usual reponse. Typical waiting times for subsidised drug rehab programs are 2 years in most of the US.
But "party drunks" are quite common in the US too. Ever been to New Orleans? and not just at Mardi Gras. We have a bar district in downtown Seattle, where, on most weekend nights, there are crowds of obnoxious drunks, not quite Cardiff quality, but quite loud, nasty, and rude nonetheless.

Even outside trendy clubs in Buenos Aires, you just dont see this. I see the occasional kids each with their own Quilmes, strolling around, but not the level of loud swearing, belligerence, and pissing and puking in public you can see in other cities.

 

[perry]

Good post Ries and many truths there. Many people from overseas do not realise the excellent care and services available for homeless and drug addicted people in Argentina. Now the services might not be gleaming first world standard but they are there and keep many men and woman from dying on the streets.

I agree that seeing people in a drug induced coma and puking in public is rare in Buenos Aires but it is certainly growing lately with Paco and its effects.

I recall a period of my life when I was working in a public hospital in Sydney Australia and the cases of heroin overdoses and drunken injuries were high to say the least . Junkie mothers on the streets were a common occurence there and the only solution was trading their addiction for another methadone .