Expats not happy, why stay?

[perry]

I would agree with these comments. The difficulty of making the transition is much harder I think than people realize and the reason probably 80% return home after a year or two in a new country. I think Argentina can be a particularly difficult place to adapt to. Let's face it on the surface the people aren't particularly welcoming, accomplishing daily tasks that were simple back home become arduous here, etc. It's a completely different culture that has both its good points and bad. I commend the people that can make the adaptation but fully understand the majority that can not, and this is where a lot of the complaining comes from you hear on this site.

Another load of c....p . Argentina is much more welcoming than most countries in the world especially to new immigrants who just have to leave the country for a few hours every 90 days . What other country allows such a policy? I also believe that anyone who has good ideas and a bankroll Argentina is easier to make good return on investment than most countries on the planet. The USA and Europe is much more difficult for many immigrants but going by the comments above we are fed more lies once again.

in regards to the complaining if you look closely it is mainly a few posters who enjoy feeling good attacking Argentina even though they have left our shores and are now subconsciously missing life here but because they could not adapt or understand themselves in this society they like to express their warped view on Argentinian people and the country.

 

[gouchobob]

Another load of c....p . Argentina is much more welcoming than most countries in the world especially to new immigrants who just have to leave the country for a few hours every 90 days . What other country allows such a policy? I also believe that anyone who has good ideas and a bankroll Argentina is easier to make good return on investment than most countries on the planet. The USA and Europe is much more difficult for many immigrants but going by the comments above we are fed more lies once again.

in regards to the complaining if you look closely it is mainly a few posters who enjoy feeling good attacking Argentina even though they have left our shores and are now subconsciously missing life here but because they could not adapt or understand themselves in this society they like to express their warped view on Argentinian people and the country.

Well Pericles I guess you are more into personal insults than meaningful discussions. I guess you can get away with it as this site is yours. If you disagree with what I have to say or believe I am spreading lies and disinformation why don't you just ban me like you have so many others, or adapt a more balanced and mature attitude to those you don't agree with? This would involve spending time to make logical arguments with those that you don't agree with versus ill advised personal attacks.

 

[ghost]

Another load of c....p . Argentina is much more welcoming than most countries in the world especially to new immigrants who just have to leave the country for a few hours every 90 days . What other country allows such a policy? I also believe that anyone who has good ideas and a bankroll Argentina is easier to make good return on investment than most countries on the planet. The USA and Europe is much more difficult for many immigrants but going by the comments above we are fed more lies once again.

in regards to the complaining if you look closely it is mainly a few posters who enjoy feeling good attacking Argentina even though they have left our shores and are now subconsciously missing life here but because they could not adapt or understand themselves in this society they like to express their warped view on Argentinian people and the country.

Well, OK, you are "sort of" right. It is easy to come to Argentina and fairly easy to stay, once you are there.
One needs to wonder if Argentina has some Grand Plan future vision that sees this as a way to attract and keep talent [a brain drain, so to speak]. But then you need a plan and an infrastructure that enables the acquired "talent" to succeed and flurish.
That particular, critical part of plan seems to be missing.

 

[perry]

Well Pericles I guess you are more into personal insults than meaningful discussions. I guess you can get away with it as this site is yours. If you disagree with what I have to say or believe I am spreading lies and disinformation why don't you just ban me like you have so many others, or adapt a more balanced and mature attitude to those you don't agree with? This would involve spending time to make logical arguments with those that you don't agree with versus ill advised personal attacks.

Number One. I do not have the means to ban people on this site as you have falsely claimed in your continuing misinformation campaign.

Number Two. This site is actually the most open and liberal site for expats in Argentina with very little censorship .There is freedom of topics and the exchange of views that can be expressed here but that does not mean that I have to agree with you nor does it mean that I cannot be vocal about it.

Number Three. I like to understand the mindset of a person who leaves a country like Argentina moves back to his home country in your case USA and from there starts up disinformation campaigns that have very little truth in most expats lives in Buenos Aires .

Expat is an interesting term actually as it does imply someone who moves to another society and tries to adapt and make a living within the society . Being a tourist coming through does not have the same significance for many and less so if you are writing about Buenos Aires as an expert from the loungeroom of Chicago , San Francisco, London or Rome.

Number 4. Do you not believe that someone who lives here fulltime and works and has his ear to the ground is better informed about local events than a wall street or new york times journalist who have an agenda that is always to their best interests.

Number5. I do see the negatives of Buenos Aires Society and have freely posted about them but I balance that with the positives which are very many and certainly far better than any other society I have lived in before.

Number 6. Argentina and Buenos Aires has far more freedom including personal freedoms and freedom of the press that most of the western world is now denying to their citizens. The USA and Europe is far more controlled in every facet of peoples lives as well as creating situations of less freedom for all their citizens.

Number 7. Anyone is welcome to disagree with my thoughts and beliefs like you do Gouchobob.

 

[Lucas]

Well, OK, you are "sort of" right. It is easy to come to Argentina and fairly easy to stay, once you are there.
One needs to wonder if Argentina has some Grand Plan future vision that sees this as a way to attract and keep talent [a brain drain, so to speak]. But then you need a plan and an infrastructure that enables the acquired "talent" to succeed and flurish.
That particular, critical part of plan seems to be missing.

Yes that is partially true and as been like that for a long, looooong time some of the brilliant minds went overseas mainly USA and Europe but predominately USA who still is and was a sucking vacuum of the most brilliant minds worldwide.

Why? Because here wasn't available the minimum infrastructure and facilities for this people to develop further in they research field... Why? Because always the money and the support was not there when it most was needed... Why? Because this country went from crisis to crisis and boom to bust in the last one hundred years and people just have one life to spare, I can't criticize them for that, on the other hand also has been people and scientists who stay put in this country against great personal difficulties and succeeded in they efforts to become remarkable scientists, admired by they pairs worldwide including some of them went on to become nominated and Nobel prize winners against all the odds and difficulties encountered in their passion.

Unfortunately there isn't a Grand Plan and Vision in place at the moment to keep here the talent and brains and with that to stop the hemorrhage, the government of the day is trying very hard to reverse the trend left by the inexorably decay and indifference of so many years of neglect but also there are interest in stopping all that vision of grandness to keep this country and the sub-continent as part of a chain of raw material suppliers for the rich countries so the problem is not only of internal interest but also external, just look the constant pressure this government is by the multimedia conglomerate to not succeed in any of their enterprises and visions.

 

[syngirl]

Let's face it on the surface the people aren't particularly welcoming, accomplishing daily tasks that were simple back home become arduous here, etc.

Another load of c....p . Argentina is much more welcoming than most countries in the world especially to new immigrants who just have to leave the country for a few hours every 90 days . What other country allows such a policy?

Pericles, you are interpreting the welcoming nature of Argentina in terms of mere paperwork and bureaucracy. In that, yes, it is technically a welcoming country.

However, I believe Gouchobob is talking about how welcoming are the People of Argentina are to immigrants, not how welcoming is government policy. And I would agree with him, that they are not particularly welcoming. Most immigrants here are not Europeans and North Americans. They are Paraguayans and Bolivians. And we all know that the large majority of Argentines have a less than stellar opinion of the immigrants from the periphery countries.

After that the other large group of immigrants that have installed themselves successfully are the Chinese and Koreans. And if you've been here long enough you'll remember again, there has been less than stellar treatment of these immigrant groups as well.

And as far as "expats" go like those on the board, most Argentines can't be bothered to become friends with people that they 1) met anytime after university and 2) are foreigners that are only going to stick around for a short time and then piss off back to their own country.

Frankly, I don't really blame them, I've seen this attitude before -- in London, England There most English people can't be bothered to socialise with all the Aussies, South Africans, Kiwis, and other expats that flood the city. Why bother? They're just there to party it up for a short time and then piss off back home -- it's too much efort to be friends with them. That's the same attitude here, and that's totally understandable.

 

[soulskier]

One needs to wonder if Argentina has some Grand Plan future vision

I don't believe planning for anything in the future occurs much in Argentina.

I remember when we first moved here and asked some people on a Monday what they were doing the following weekend. They looked at us like we were nuts and told us to ask them on Friday.

 

[K_Crimini]

I think they complain because they complained themselves right out of their home countries and complaining is a way of life. Maybe they think they're being funny. But at the risk of coplaining about the complainers, I'm going to cut this short.

K

 

[ghost]

I don't believe planning for anything in the future occurs much in Argentina.

I remember when we first moved here and asked some people on a Monday what they were doing the following weekend. They looked at us like we were nuts and told us to ask them on Friday.

I know. I was being a little sarcastic. Long term vision and planning is very difficult in a society that is used to 10 year cycles of total change. It's a sad truth that reverberates through the very fabric of the culture. It's been around so long that people just accept it and move on.

 

[citygirl]

I would agree with these comments. The difficulty of making the transition is much harder I think than people realize and the reason probably 80% return home after a year or two in a new country. I think Argentina can be a particularly difficult place to adapt to. Let's face it on the surface the people aren't particularly welcoming, accomplishing daily tasks that were simple back home become arduous here, etc. It's a completely different culture that has both its good points and bad. I commend the people that can make the adaptation but fully understand the majority that can not, and this is where a lot of the complaining comes from you hear on this site.

Wow Pericles - what is it in this post that you disagree with so vehemently?

1) 80% plus return after a year or two leave within 2 years? I would say that is right on target, if not perhaps a little low.
2) People aren't particularly welcoming? Well, everyone has different opinions on this but for quite a few people, they feel this is a difficult place to make friends and assimilate.
3) Accomplishing simple tasks become arduous? I don't think that anyone here would disagree with that.

FWIW - I don't think gouchobob was posting anything all that negative (or in fact shocking). He also followed up with "It's a completely different culture that has both its good points and bad. "

Nobody is saying one should move to Argentina and waste all their time complaining. However, I think it's delusional to think one would move to a foreign country and NOT have some challenges. And for many, those challenges may prove to be too much.

Although again, my sense is that the vast majority of posters here aren't necessarily "expats" but people who are here for a year or two and as such, may have a slightly different view point.