Got shouted at on first border hop at the Buquebus terminal in BA

DK72

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Over the last 8 years, i have lived 5 years or so in Argentina. One recent overstay.

last year i got a new passport, and in my country they also issue a new passport number (not sure how that works in other countries, eg US). Question: when i go through migraciones, be it at ezeiza or colonia, do they see my full history (incl old passport) or do i basically start at zero with new passport and passport number?
 

dsp27

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Over the last 8 years, i have lived 5 years or so in Argentina. One recent overstay.

last year i got a new passport, and in my country they also issue a new passport number (not sure how that works in other countries, eg US). Question: when i go through migraciones, be it at ezeiza or colonia, do they see my full history (incl old passport) or do i basically start at zero with new passport and passport number?
Yes they do. Your name and DO didn't change and they use these as the "match" variable not the passport number.
 

americas

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First, thank you for the response -- and while I disagree, I hope I'm coming across as conversational and not stubborn or willfully ignorant. I'm very aware that it's important to get this right, and that lying to myself isn't going to help. However, it's also important to understand what the realities are and assuming the worst-case would be harmful if it's unlikely to actually be the worst case.

Speeding (in the US) is a system where literally everybody drives over the speed limit. The overwhelming majority of people don't see any consequences for that. Of those who do see consequences, they are usually driving significantly over the speed limit and are caught by a police officer who uses their own discretion to enforce the law or not (in your case, giving you a verbal warning). Then, when they do enforce the law, the severity of consequences depends on how fast the person was speeding over the limit. A variety of factors go into those cases.

So, using speeding as an example of a black-and-white area of the law is surprising to me because it doesn't seem to be very black and white at all. Certainly, receiving a warning about speeding does indicate a grey area in enforcement -- the officer's discretion! On the contrary, the fact that, the speed limit is actually a hard black/white number yet there is still an obvious grey area as to "will I get busted for going this high speed in this area" should lend credence to the idea that grey areas exist where the underlying law isn't so black/white as a number.

A black / white area, for me, would be European country's laws on this topic which explicitly say that tourist stays can be for a maximum of 180 days per year. That's black and white!

Given the abundance of comments on these boards where "overstays", "border runs" are commonly discussed and exploited, it is flabbergasting to be told that Argentina has a harsh immigration system and that actually the laws are crystal clear. They don't appear to be crystal clear as they're written or enforced. And, aside from the one example given in this thread about parents being turned away (and my example of being shouted at but permitted entry), it's also difficult to understand what the consequences are: (eg. you're turned away but can come back in a month and try again or with a different visa the next day... you're turned away and banned for life... you're charged with a crime)

It is certainly clear that I'm vulnerable and at risk! It would be most helpful to know what those risks are. For example, is the risk being turned away at the border? Arrested? Fined? Banned from the country? "it isn't pretty for you or your employer".... what does that mean?
 

elhombresinnombre

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A black / white area, for me, would be European country's laws on this topic which explicitly say that tourist stays can be for a maximum of 180 days per year. That's black and white!
I'm glad you think that's black and white. First, it rather depends on which European country one is talking about and second, it rather depends on who the tourist is.

Within the Schengen area and with very limited exceptions, outsiders may enter and stay for 90 days in any 180 day period. You may enter for another 90 days in another 180 but they can't be contiguous and that is not the same as staying for a maximum of 180 days per year.

If one is going to place one's own interpretation on facts then it is important that the facts are indeed facts.
 

americas

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Thank you for the clarification, but aren't you just restating my point while saying that actually it discounts my point because I didn't have the details correct? The specification that you provided seems very clear about what is and isn't prohibited by specifying the limits (ie. 90 days / 180 days), whereas Argentina does not specify those limits to my knowledge.

Like, Argentina has no equivalent for specifying a certain number of days per year or other similar specification, correct?
 

Alby

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I claim no expertise in this, however I have followed the matter reaonably closely here. I have a clear recollection of Bajo clarifying it very clearly in the last 12 to 18 months, as follows:

The infraction is (or was at the time he wrote) translatable as "abuse of the tourist visa" and I recall him saying something about it being interpretable as "espionage".

My memory is clearer about the penalty: should a border official detect this and use his or her discretion (which probably almost happened in your case), the penalty is/was: banned from entering for 5 years, a stamp placed on the passport indicating this ban (presumably the system also updated to show this). Bajo's advice was to take out a habeus corpus immediately.
 
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lunar

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The specification that you provided seems very clear about what is and isn't prohibited by specifying the limits (ie. 90 days / 180 days), whereas Argentina does not specify those limits to my knowledge.

Like, Argentina has no equivalent for specifying a certain number of days per year or other similar specification, correct?

There are two parts in this, and for some reason you are concentrating on the timing part, and not on the essence.

There is no law that requires a table to be about 80cm high. But if you make it way bigger, say 3 meters high, general understanding is that it stops being a table. It becomes rather a canopy or something. Since it can not be used as a table, it is not a table, even though it is absolutely the same thing structurally and otherwise.

Say, there is a law that allows you to bring a table into the country on Friday. You are trying to convince everybody and yourself that you are allowed to bring a 3m high table today, because today is Friday. But in reality you can not do it, because it is not a table.

If you stay here long enough, at some point you stop being a tourist in good faith, and become a perma-tourist. After that, the immigration laws that are relevant to tourists do not apply to your situation anymore.

Or you can say to an immigration officer that you intend to practice your profession here and bring your tools of work with you. This makes you not a tourist right away.
 
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BeraRane

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Instead of agonizing over it I'd suggest to bite the bullet like me and marry yourself into the Argentine abyss.
 

Reply Guy

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I "hopped" the border for close to 10 years before getting a visa and immigration officers never even raised their voice at me, a couple of times they told me I need to start the legalization process.

I had also heard stories of people getting denied after a year or two during that time.

The bottom line is after a year or so, you're starting to put yourself at the mercy of the mood of the immigration officer.

If you absolutely can't get a visa for a couple years and need to stay in Argentina a few ideas that come to mind are:

1. Not leaving. Just pay the overstay fine and regularize your status when you can.
2. Leaving for longer periods of time. A couple months at a time, at least a couple of weeks. Returning in the same day or 24 hours later makes a mockery of the law.
3. Cross at land borders where the process is less formal.

Not legal advice, just my experience. The experience of others I'm sure varies greatly. Good luck.
 

jbeas176

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americas, it looks like your trying to get answers that don’t consistently exist. immigration officers interpet the laws differently and apply them as they see fit. it happens around the world. argentina is no different. just have a backup plan like an attorney’s number. mis dos centavos. good luck
 
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