Has It Always Been So Bad?

[Ries]

I'm from Seattle and live here in buenos Aires year round. What you said is just crazy to me, there is no comparison in terms of saftey. I feel much less safe here than I ever did in Seattle and I've traveled all of Seattle in public transport, at night as well.

Well- I have lived in Seattle, off and on, since 1955.
To me, the downtown is far scarier than the microcentro.
I often walk around buenos aires between 11pm and 4am, without any fear whatsoever.
My friend Brent, on the other hand, was shot dead in Belltown at around 2am on December 13 of last year.
As I said above, my friend Jack was beaten for his cellphone on a Seattle bus last year.
Downtown Seattle is full of raving, mentally ill, stoned and drunk people every day.
It is impossible to spend more than a few hours in Downtown Seattle and not see at least one crazy person, swearing at the top of his or her lungs, while staggering down the street.
I have never seen such a thing in Buenos Aires.
In Seattle, I have seen people pee on the bus, and on the light rail.
I never see that here.
I have had cars, offices, and houses broken into in Seattle, multiple times.
Bikes stolen.
Public drunkeness is constant there.
I never see it here.
There are places in Seattle where you will always be stepping around used needles.

I dont know where you live in Buenos Aires, but in the areas of the centro I hang out in- from Caballito to Villa Crespo to Belgrano to Monserrat to San Telmo, I feel much safer than I do in Seattle. And, compared to NYC, or LA, or downtown SF, Seattle is pretty safe.
I had my studio in South Central LA for almost ten years- 2 cops were machine gunned a couple blocks from there one night while I was working in the studio.
I know that I do things every day in Buenos Aires I would never do in Seattle, and I have never had any fear, in 8 years of coming here.
This is not to say I dont go to downtown Seattle- I show in a gallery there, and sit the gallery several weeks every year, and I go where I want to, when I need to- but my situational awareness in Seattle, especially after dark, is more acute than in Buenos Aires. I keep my eyes open, because weird shit happens there pretty often. My son was living on Capitol Hill, a couple of years ago, and, two blocks from his house, a mentally ill guy killed a random victim with a hatchet in broad daylight. Many of my friends were very close to Cafe Racer, where another mentally ill guy killed 4 people in broad daylight.

When was the last time you were in Seattle?
I was there in November, and, no doubt, will be visiting again in the next month or so.

http://komonews.com/...iver-in-seattle
http://www.seattlepi...bus-6570581.php
http://www.nytimes.c...2-are-dead.html
http://www.seattleti...r-youth-mentor/
https://en.wikipedia..._shooting_spree
http://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2010/11/capitol-hill-man-arrested-in-axe-killing/

 

[Noesdeayer]

I'm a New Yorker who has been here 38 years now.B.A. is WORSE now than it has ever been since I came in 1979.
I have lived in 5 barrios and in San Telmo for the last 17 years.Anyone who walks around this barrio at 4:00 A.M. is a very daring person.
it wasn't always like thisIt began to get really bad about 8 years ago
There are drunks and "crazies" all over San Telmo.You have to be blind not to see them.
in great measure I lay the blame squarely at the door of Kirchnerism and their gross inability to govern and enforce loitering and criminal prevention laws.
I have never been to Seattle but San Telmo is beginning to lok a lot like Hell's Kitchen in NYC.

 

[JoeGillis]

I'm a New Yorker who has been here 38 years now.B.A. is WORSE now than it has ever been since I came in 1979.
I have lived in 5 barrios and in San Telmo for the last 17 years.Anyone who walks around this barrio at 4:00 A.M. is a very daring person.
it wasn't always like thisIt began to get really bad about 8 years ago
There are drunks and "crazies" all over San Telmo.You have to be blind not to see them.
in great measure I lay the blame squarely at the door of Kirchnerism and their gross inability to govern and enforce loitering and criminal prevention laws.
I have never been to Seattle but San Telmo is beginning to lok a lot like Hell's Kitchen in NYC.

While I agree with you that BA is less safe now than at any time during the last 45 years of my time(s) spent here, both as a visitor and a resident, there's no comparing San Telmo today with Hell's Kitchen NY today, for this area has succumb to Manhattan gentrification. It's unrecognizable from what it was just 15 years ago, and most older residents of Hell's Kitchen don't like their new and, for the most part, younger neighbors. The area is full of pseudo-trendy restaurants with lousy food and noisy shots-and-brew bars. But, at least, it's safe.

 

[Ries]

I was in San Telmo last night- it was only about 1:30, though. I saw single women walking alone, and I saw zero raving drunks.
A similar neighborhood in Seattle, Pioneer Square, for instance, and you would NOT see a single woman, walking alone, wearing short shorts and a tank top. And you would see many very disturbed people.

I have no doubt that Buenos Aires is worse than it used to be- as is pretty much every major city on earth.

but the question is- are you actually in much danger of being robbed on a busy collectivo, like my friend Jack was?
are you actually in danger of being shot for no reason, as my friend Brent was?

In the last 5 years or so, zero american tourists were murdered in Argentina.
under ten died, and most were car crashes, 2 suicides.
A famous case of a french guy, fighting with thieves as they stole his camera, in 2012.
A couple of french tourists killed in 2011.

But as a tourist, in the commonly travelled areas of the city, your danger is minimal.

Sure, if you live in Moron or Quilmes, especially if you are buying or selling drugs, or are in a gang, you are in much more danger.
And, oddly enough, Mar De Plata is a murder capital these days.
Lomas de Zamora is the most dangerous place in Argentina right now.
And, as Serafina said above, about italy, 95% of the people never go there.
http://www.buenosair...-in-ba-province

 

[mikic007]

@ries

I don't find it apocalyptical bad here, as some others, but drunks, crazies, motochorros, bike robbers and much more is very common just on my corner of avenida. This isn't all of course, today I took the bus with crazy driver who didn't respect any red light. Sure he checked a bit more careful, but went through all of them.. He never really stopped to pick up passengers, we had to jump on and off like in a movie. Now, this isn't the worst, but problem is, that no one thought that bad or at least weird. Then you know, that you can do practically anything here and nothing will happen. Actually, I find criminals here even a bit self restraining, because if I would be one, I already imagine myself going all the way...

 

[RichardP]

Ries,
The hatchet killing happened not 100ft from where I live. I knew the victim quite well. There are a lot of crazies in Seattle these days and it's getting worse.

That said, I don't feel any safer when I'm in BA.

 

[Ries]

no hatchet murders lately in Recoleta, that I have heard of.
Or even in Once, for that matter.

But I am going out to Once tonight, to eat peruvian food and see Miss Boliva at Konex- I will keep my eyes open.

 

[estebandepraga]

Bajo cero I BEG TO DIFFER!
when I was stabbed violently last year, it was NOT under the current government! When I was robbed it was NOT under the new government. IT will take time to make things right if it is even possible. BA is no longer what it was years ago. Any one who says it was is lieing or has been living in their ivory tower! IT is time to show that the populous will no longer permit this "locura" as in other countries! I for one am sick and tired of having to think about so many exits, what ifs, etc before I leave my building(and even living in my building!) BASTA YA!

 

[RodalfoWalsh]

Ries you must have prescription strength rose colored glasses. In seattle if you go downtown during the day, if it's not raining you can see people sitting outside using laptops. You'd never see that in microcentro because the chance of being robbed would be near 100%. There are neighborhoods here in capital where cars don't stop for red lights at night, I know because I lived in one.

Not only have I seen people pee on public transportation here (95 bus) I've seen vomit (Sarmiento Train) and even a guy bleeding profusely from a stab wound to the abdomen (Mitre train).

In seattle I know several people who have had their homes robbed but none where home. Here I knew a brit who had a gun put to his head in San Isidro and made to open the gate and then handover everything he had of value. When it turned out that he didn't have hundreds of thousands in cash (like many argentines), they got pissed and told him they were going to kill him. In Seattle and most of the US, burglars aim for empty homes. Here, where the doors and locks are a lot stronger, they want you to be home.

I sublet my PH (in san cristobol) to two dutch girls 2 years ago. When I was in seattle, not being robbed, they had carelessly not closed the persiana on an upstairs balcony all the way and 2 guys climbed the tree from the street, kicked inner doors and robbed them at knife point. The neighbors security camera caught it all on film. The poor girl went to a hotel the next day and didn't leave until her flight.

Never in all of my time in Seattle in the early morning or even Tacoma have I ever feared that I'd be kidnapped, yet I once dated a girl who had been (before we were dating, snatched off the street in martinez, late afternoon) and have a friend who was carjacked and kidnapped (later ransomed for $1000 pesos in the 90s).

I live in a good neighborhood now but I'm always careful to close all the "persianas". You don't see security shutters and iron bars that often in queen anne.

Lots of my neighbors have electrified fences. Some have concertina wire. You almost never see either in Seattle.


Now I'm not quaking in fear here and I do think that some people exaggerate the problems (serafina) but you can't deny they exist.

 

[Girino]

I for one am sick and tired of having to think about so many exits, what ifs, etc before I leave my building(and even living in my building!) BASTA YA!

That's exactly what bugs me. The fact of having to say 'no' to certain things or actions because you assess the risks and FEEL AFRAID. Like wanting to take a stroll on the promenade and telling yourself "better not", wanting to take a walk and thinking to go to the mall because it's safer, wanting to go to a restaurant by public transport and remembering that there are guards and valets, so maybe the area is not safe for a pedestrian, wanting to go out downtown and being afraid of the bus ride back home at midnight, not being able to go to certain restaurants because they are in Palermo and open at night only....

Then I think that maybe getting a car would solve part of my worries, but then I'll be worried about the car, the trapitos, other crazy drivers, uninsured drivers, DUI drivers, bus drivers like mikic0007's, etc.

I'm sorry if the US is like this or worse, I am just saying that in Europe this dangerous stuff is very limited and easily avoidable for the most part.