Hello! Hola

[Santiago F]

Hi everybody! I'm Argentinian and I have lived all my life here in my country. I've recently come across this forum and was curious about a foreigner's perspective on Argentina and its people, as well as about the different cultures of your own countries compared to ours and on their own.

I will try to be as open-minded as I can (I think I am enough, though . And you can count on me on any piece of advice I can give you that may help you.

Cheers,
Santiago

 

[laureltp]

First I would suggest if you haven't already you should take a look at this thread under expat life: Argentina Teaches 5 Lessons of Happiness.

I think to live here and love it here you really have to be opened minded and ready to deal with some confusing and frustrating things. But if the things you like out weigh the annoyances than it's a good place to call home (or better said adopted home.)

So the things that drive me crazy. First that everything is disorganized. I have been trying to deal with UBA which is a big bundle of craziness. On the other hand though, it's free, which is something you will never find in the US. So I guess the craziness is the price you pay for not having to pay a ridiculous amount of money for an education. But that's not the only disorganized thing. It seems like it's everywhere, at immigrations, the police, the bank, pretty much every place that you have to deal with here isn't well organized. Again, there is an upside though, they are also much more relaxed here. So lets say I make a mistake on a document or I show up late, nobody seems to mind, if I do that in NY they will make a big deal out of it.

If you check out that blog on the lessons of happiness I think a lot of them are true. I have 2 brothers and 2 sisters. I live in a different country and my brothers and sisters are spread across the US, one is in Arizona, two are in Texas, on is in NY. I think here family is more important and you don't see that so often in the US. Sometimes I wish my family was closer so that we could have dinner together or have asados on Sunday like they do here. But I guess too, we all have the opportunity to live somewhere else and that's a very valuable experience, so it's good and it's bad.

I think eating here is a bigger deal. In the US I see a lot of people just go to a fast food place for lunch, they have a half an hour break to eat and get back to work. When I taught some English lessons at IBM the employees had a 2 hour lunch break. We would talk and they would eat and enjoy themselves. They weren't in a big hurry to get back to work. Again, could be good or bad. In the US I think workers are more efficient but have a lot more stress, where as workers here maybe slack off a little but they also take time during the day to enjoy their lunch. (of course not all workers, I have also met people here with very demanding jobs who work long hours!)

I used to always tell my family about what great private health care they have here but for a much lower price than the US. Well, that seems to be changing now that the prices are going up, but it's still pretty good.

I think too that I agree with the blog about happiness when she talks about the Argentines being less materialistic. It seems to me that even when people can afford a good lifestyle they aren't so caught up in material stuff. I see that they invest in things like going out with their friends, having dinner with their family, traveling, taking language courses, starting a new hobby, maybe taking dance or yoga classes. Those are all things that while you don't get anything material from them you certainly benefit in a lot of ways.

Although there are things about living here that make me really sad and don't really have any good side to them. Just the other day I seen a homeless kid trying to sell tissues on the street. Nobody was buying his tissues and he started crying. This woman stopped to ask him if he was okay and he said he was just hungry. I wish I had money or something on me to give him but at the time I just had a couple subway passes and some books on me. I am at least glad that somebody had it in their heart to stop and try to help him a bit. Those type of moments kind of break my heart. But at least they make me realize how lucky I really am!

One thing that strikes me odd about this place is the wages that people get. Obviously, the aren't getting paid enough, but that's not the thing that really confuses me. Recently there was the strike of the health care workers so that nurses can have a base pay of 3,000 pesos. In the US nurses make a lot of money. It's a set rule, the better education you have, the more important your job is the more you make. But in our apartment building the portero makes 4,500 pesos, apparently more than some nurses! I also knew a waitress who made more than an accountant working for IBM. It just doesn't make much sense to me, maybe you could help me figure this one out!

 

[Davidglen77]

For me the big difference between the USA and Argentina is that here I feel like (and others from here have agreed) that I am working to support the government. It´s almost like a (distorted) monarchy in that sense. In the USA I felt like my politicians were working for me (most of them) and that people would be outraged and the politician would be REMOVED from office if they tried some of the stunts like the politicians here. And the people although they don't like it, just kind of seem to shrug their shoulders and say "es así" and cut off avenues and streets in protest of the policies that the uninterested politicians have put into effect. A better strategy would be to vote in politicians who develop policies for the better of society and cut out the cancerous politics of nepotism and not have to protest (as much).

 

[Coco]

David, I can relate to your frustration, but...

1). Our politicians aren't any more benevolent, enlightened, or morally righteous than their Argentine counterparts; they're simply more astute, discrete and sophisticated when it comes to graft and the abuse of office and influence.

2). I think the cultural and psychological undercurrents that produce unethical politicians are so deeply ingrained in the collective mindset (at least in urban centers) that no amount of candidate swapping will ever solve the problem. A paradigm shift has to occur from below--in civil society itself--before change in society's institutions can be realized. And that's not just in Argentina. I think it's a near-universal problem...

 

[Santiago F]

laureltp, thanks four your long answer. As to your final question, I think that the fact that some jobs that don't need a university degree get better paid than professional jobs is something that started not long ago (just my opinion). I think it is due to Kirchners' policies and the strength of trade unions. In principle, I'd say it's ok, but of course, as you mentioned, it's not fair for the rest of jobs, and especially for professionals, who have studied for years to earn a degree. I'm not saying that bus drivers, truck drivers, some waiters, etc. don't deserve to earn decent or more than decent wages. Don't take me wrong. But I agree with you on that.

Davidglen77, I agree with you, too. And one of the things that gets on my nerves is that the Kirchners proclaim themselves as "progressives", "leftist", etc, whereas in fact they are more conservative than not.

Coco, what you say is true, but I think that in places like Argentina we take that to a greater degree. I've recently been to the UK on holidays. Although things aren't perfect there, things are better in terms of the way everything is organized.

Well, just my two cents. I'll keep posting.
Cheers,

 

[laureltp]

thanks for the response. It's interesting to know that it's something that happened only recently. In my opinion everyone here could use a good pay raise