Is Argentina a good idea?

[Napoleon]

- Invest for export: funny all the Europeans I meet are amazed by those soda bottles that are still used here. Hire a good argentinean designer, and design the perfect 1950-style soda bottle than can be recharged/refilled + sell in Europe & US.

I think that he's talking about these:

 

[John.St]

How is your life in Buenos Aires?

Having been away for so long, you'll be a stranger in your "home" country.

Before making any final decision come to BsAs for a couple of months to see if you fit in and if BsAs fits you.

If possible try a couple of towns in the provinces as well, e.g. Córdoba, Rosario or Mendoza.

Inflation runs about 30% right now:

"Torcuato Di Tella University, or UTDT, said this week that the median projection for inflation over the next 12 months is 30%. An alternative measurement, which considers the average of responses, totaled 34.9%, up from 33.9% a month ago."

http://en.mercopress.com/2012/06/21...-remain-above-30-for-the-fourth-month-running

 

[cipriana]

Thank you all for your amazing replies. I understand the bitter ones and why they can sound so cynical. I am equally cynical when I talk about Brazil.

I have been here on and off (mostly on) for 20 years. I have also lived in London, Barcelona, Ibiza (my old vacation destination), Paris and, in Brazil, Florianópolis, a short stretch in Rio, Ilheus, Itacaré, Valença, all in Bahia, São Paulo city and now in the interior. I love this country and at one point chose it as my home. I spent the next 10 years trying to become a citizen (although my father was Brazilian). Argentina is equally chaotic and bureaucratic and Brazil does not have the stability everyone thinks it has so that is not the issue with me.

I experienced the Alfonsin, Menem and Collor eras in both countries and they were just or more hectic than the one Argentina is experiencing now. We Latin Americans are used to the mess. Life in European countries becomes almost boring when you don´t have to worry about basic survival (well, maybe they do now). It might sound condescending and I know life in Europe can still be better (believe me, it was an option), but I am not so afraid of the economic issues. I have never liked the food in Brazil and some people I know in Argentina have warned me that I might not find the intellectual richness I am looking for, but crime in Brazil is crazy (things are seriously getting out of hand with the crack epidemic that the outside world is unaware of) and I did not experience that in Argentina. The meat is tasteless and as an Argentinian, I can´t live without good meat, and yes, life is very, very expensive here.
Eating sushi in a neighbourhood restaurant costs 50 USD for 3, only one beer. My rent is 500 USD in a small town and my living expenses are around 1500 USD, and this is a small town! A shopping cart of food is about 200 USD. We rarely eat out and never, ever travel. A box of cornflakes costs USD 5 and decent coffee costs about USD 3.50. The milk and dairy products in Brazil are really bad and the fruit and vegetable are good but they were better in Argentina. This might all seem idiotic, but I think no one has any idea how much I miss those things.
I don´t know if they still exist.
As for the cultural aspects, Argentinians read and reflect, something Brazilians do not often do. I am not being offensive, seriously. It´s just not part of the educational system or the culture. There might be great exhibitions because Brazil is supposedly fashionable right now, but few people appreciate or understand what they are seeing.

As I said before, the economic stability here is an illusion. People just have more access to credit and are spending money they don´t have. Default has risen historically, the government charges and invents new taxes everyday and Brazilians work 150 days a year just to pay tax. Brazilians are now buying SVUs and paying 4x the market value for goods in 100 instalments (including the car), just as the north americans did. In Brazil, we all know this is not going to end well. There are millions of articles in well-known newspapers and magazines on this problem. We don´t feel the stability, believe me.

I will take the last person´s advice (I´m afraid of looking up the name and losing all the text I just wrote , and go to Argentina for a couple of months before deciding. I am really happy almost everyone agreed that living outside the city is a good idea. I remember just how hard it was 10 years ago living in BA and I was making a good salary...
If anyone wants to continue sharing their experiences, please do. They are very valuable to me.
Thanks again!

 

[Carloncho]

Camberiu is right when she questions how come Argentinians have mostly good general education but lousy record as voters. Well, I am Argentino but living in USA since 1986, and the possibility of having Obama reelected in november scares the hell out of me. I certainly will return to Buenos Aires once I get my S
retirement

 

[surfing]

Camberiu is right when she questions how come Argentinians have mostly good general education but lousy record as voters. Well, I am Argentino but living in USA since 1986, and the possibility of having Obama reelected in november scares the hell out of me. I certainly will return to Buenos Aires once I get my S
retirement

From the frying pan into the fire, eh?

 

[psflores]

I started Redding this forum because my Guild friend started making generalizations or criticizing with out really knowing what she was talking about. I guess you figured out i am argentine and she is not.
Is Argentina a good place to live? The cultural offer is as good as any big capital, in my personal opinion it has nothing to envy to New York or Paris. Clearly it has not become a cheap country. And yes the government is a disaster probably the worst in … the history. Second quarter of 2012 will be complicated. But next year will be even worst. With luck 2014 will start to bounce again. Thing that I don’t like because people might vote again for this disaster.
Someone said that argentines have no clue of economics or politics. Clearly that depends with witch person you talk. 45 percent of the population is against the economical policies of this country.
Do still think is a good place to live? Despite what la Nacion says still a safe place compared with the rest of Latin America… I know is not the EU and Chile is better… but is a good place.

 

[PhilinBSAS]

I have been here on and off (mostly on) for 20 years. I have also lived in London, Barcelona, Ibiza (my old vacation destination), Paris and, in Brazil, Florianópolis, a short stretch in Rio, Ilheus, Itacaré, Valença, all in Bahia, São Paulo city and now in the interior.

I experienced the Alfonsin, Menem and Collor eras in both countries and they were just or more hectic than the one Argentina is experiencing now.

We Latin Americans are used to the mess. Life in European countries becomes almost boring when you don´t have to worry about basic survival (well, maybe they do now). It might sound condescending and I know life in Europe can still be better (believe me, it was an option), but I am not so afraid of the economic issues.

As I said before, the economic stability here is an illusion.

Thanks again!

Thank you for your insightful observations. You are some observer/traveller!

I found Brazil to be a paradox too. I've only been as a tourist and only half a dozen times to different parts which is like people saying they have "done" Europe in a couple of weeks.

I've got some Brazilian friends and also students from the past and I think they are best in the world like similar from Argentina and other places too.

I have a doctor in Rio to thank for my life having been in hospital there.

The crime is seriously worse almost everywhere in Brazil of that I'm convinced

Brazilians have soul like everyone else but culturally a desert seems to me sorry but that's my experience and I'll be glad to be proved wrong

Trouble is that here in Buenos Aires people get infected/don't understand the porteno/guacho pessimism when really is such a great place.

As for the Argentine "arrogance" well just as much I've observed in Brazil.

Economically Brazil could become a titan and is pushing for recognition as a world power.

I find unforgivable the police rounding up street kids and shooting them even though unforgivable things happened in Argentina with their police too. Life seems to be even cheaper in Brazil which is a sad thing to say.

Deciding factors? The football in Buenos Aires is so much better!!!

Good luck wherever you go.

 

[Crema Americana]

Eating sushi in a neighbourhood restaurant costs 50 USD for 3, only one beer. My rent is 500 USD in a small town and my living expenses are around 1500 USD, and this is a small town! A shopping cart of food is about 200 USD. We rarely eat out and never, ever travel. A box of cornflakes costs USD 5 and decent coffee costs about USD 3.50. The milk and dairy products in Brazil are really bad and the fruit and vegetable are good but they were better in Argentina. This might all seem idiotic, but I think no one has any idea how much I miss those things.

It's the little pleasures in life that makes it all worthwhile, so it's not stupid.

While Argentina's meat is still pretty good, some of these other complaints about Brazil are similar here. Sushi from what I've heard isn't the best quality. And dining out isn't that cheap anymore - 250 pesos for 3 isn't too expensive here. Rent is similar I suppose, possibly more expensive depending on where you live and whether you're going to rent short term or long term. Coffee isn't that great and isn't cheap either.

I haven't been to Brazil so I really can't compare, but I do agree you should come for a few weeks or months if you can. I suppose as with anything there's going to pros and cons, which usually become more apparent when you settle down.

 

[Napoleon]

It's the little pleasures in life that makes it all worthwhile, so it's not stupid.

While Argentina's meat is still pretty good, some of these other complaints about Brazil are similar here. Sushi from what I've heard isn't the best quality. And dining out isn't that cheap anymore - 250 pesos for 3 isn't too expensive here. Rent is similar I suppose, possibly more expensive depending on where you live and whether you're going to rent short term or long term. Coffee isn't that great and isn't cheap either.

I haven't been to Brazil so I really can't compare, but I do agree you should come for a few weeks or months if you can. I suppose as with anything there's going to pros and cons, which usually become more apparent when you settle down.

Brazil's sushi is down right spectacular.

But yeah, the rest would be a "Come and check it out." kind of thing.

 

[surfing]

Thank you all for your amazing replies. I understand the bitter ones and why they can sound so cynical. I am equally cynical when I talk about Brazil.

I have been here on and off (mostly on) for 20 years. I have also lived in London, Barcelona, Ibiza (my old vacation destination), Paris and, in Brazil, Florianópolis, a short stretch in Rio, Ilheus, Itacaré, Valença, all in Bahia, São Paulo city and now in the interior. I love this country and at one point chose it as my home. I spent the next 10 years trying to become a citizen (although my father was Brazilian). Argentina is equally chaotic and bureaucratic and Brazil does not have the stability everyone thinks it has so that is not the issue with me.

I experienced the Alfonsin, Menem and Collor eras in both countries and they were just or more hectic than the one Argentina is experiencing now. We Latin Americans are used to the mess. Life in European countries becomes almost boring when you don´t have to worry about basic survival (well, maybe they do now). It might sound condescending and I know life in Europe can still be better (believe me, it was an option), but I am not so afraid of the economic issues. I have never liked the food in Brazil and some people I know in Argentina have warned me that I might not find the intellectual richness I am looking for, but crime in Brazil is crazy (things are seriously getting out of hand with the crack epidemic that the outside world is unaware of) and I did not experience that in Argentina. The meat is tasteless and as an Argentinian, I can´t live without good meat, and yes, life is very, very expensive here.
Eating sushi in a neighbourhood restaurant costs 50 USD for 3, only one beer. My rent is 500 USD in a small town and my living expenses are around 1500 USD, and this is a small town! A shopping cart of food is about 200 USD. We rarely eat out and never, ever travel. A box of cornflakes costs USD 5 and decent coffee costs about USD 3.50. The milk and dairy products in Brazil are really bad and the fruit and vegetable are good but they were better in Argentina. This might all seem idiotic, but I think no one has any idea how much I miss those things.
I don´t know if they still exist.
As for the cultural aspects, Argentinians read and reflect, something Brazilians do not often do. I am not being offensive, seriously. It´s just not part of the educational system or the culture. There might be great exhibitions because Brazil is supposedly fashionable right now, but few people appreciate or understand what they are seeing.

As I said before, the economic stability here is an illusion. People just have more access to credit and are spending money they don´t have. Default has risen historically, the government charges and invents new taxes everyday and Brazilians work 150 days a year just to pay tax. Brazilians are now buying SVUs and paying 4x the market value for goods in 100 instalments (including the car), just as the north americans did. In Brazil, we all know this is not going to end well. There are millions of articles in well-known newspapers and magazines on this problem. We don´t feel the stability, believe me.

I will take the last person´s advice (I´m afraid of looking up the name and losing all the text I just wrote , and go to Argentina for a couple of months before deciding. I am really happy almost everyone agreed that living outside the city is a good idea. I remember just how hard it was 10 years ago living in BA and I was making a good salary...
If anyone wants to continue sharing their experiences, please do. They are very valuable to me.
Thanks again!

Tragically, Argentina is now full of "tasteless" meat as well. While good, grass-fed beef can still be obtained it is steadily disappearing. Truly sad -- and another example of the lack of long-term thinking.

"Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got til it's gone
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot"