It Was Suicide

[germano]

Yes democracy can be tricky, but is the best way to elect somebody. But in Germany wasnt an election of more then 50%. If Im not wrong Hitler won with 30% or so and then suspended elections. Anyway, I wouldnt blame democracy on Hitler. [...]

You are absolutely right - Hitler or better the party NSDAP never had the majority of the parliament seats. He became chancelor through a coalition with another party. And he was never elected President.

 

[germano]

His party won with 42% or so of the votes, that is what the German law required

Wrong. Hitlers party never had the required majority in the parliament to make him Chancelor alone. In the prior presidential election he lost against Hindenburg.

However, by 1936 majority of Germany was all in love with Hitler because Hitler did what he promised: full employment in Germany. People turned a blind eye to everything else. To them he was their elected leader, the rest didn't matter.

It was actually more complex than that. You could argue that those who were not killed or put in concentration camps were cowards for no stopping him. But saying that all Germany was in love is not describing it correctly.

 

[nicoenarg]

Wrong. Hitlers party never had the required majority in the parliament to make him Chancelor alone. In the prior presidential election he lost against Hindenburg.



It was actually more complex than that. You could argue that those who were not killed or put in concentration camps were cowards for no stopping him. But saying that all Germany was in love is not describing it correctly.

I think you're conflating issues here. He was appointed Chancellor by Hindenburg himself. It was only after the death of Hindenburg that he declared himself the Fuhrer.

Either way, Allende only became president because of coalition with the Christian Democratic Party. Neither the appointment of Hitler to Chancellor, nor the appointment of Allende as president was illegal. I have no idea what we're going on about. I was just pointing out that neither Hitler nor Allende got more than 50%. Let's not forget that Allende only won 36% of the votes. That still doesn't delegitimize his position. In terms of democracy, both were equally democratic at the time of their election.

As for this:

It was actually more complex than that. You could argue that those who were not killed or put in concentration camps were cowards for no stopping him. But saying that all Germany was in love is not describing it correctly.

A lot of confusion would actually be avoided if we tried not to read into things the way we want. Compare it with what I said:

However, by 1936 majority of Germany was all in love with Hitler because Hitler did what he promised: full employment in Germany. People turned a blind eye to everything else. To them he was their elected leader, the rest didn't matter.

Just to clarify, and no I'm not quoting actual numbers, 50% +1 would make majority. All means 100%. Huge difference.

 

[germano]

I think you're conflating issues here. He was appointed Chancellor by Hindenburg himself. It was only after the death of Hindenburg that he declared himself the Fuhrer.

Let me try to rephrase: He ran in the presidential elections and lost against Hindenburg. Later in the (separate) elections for the Reichstag his party did not get a majority to make him Chancelor alone. Only with a coalition with anopther party he got the majority of the seats together to become Chancelor.

Compare it with what I said: [...] majority of Germany was all in love

You are right - I misquoted you on that one - so here it is: It was actually more complex than that. You could argue that those who were not killed or put in concentration camps were cowards for no stopping him. But saying that most of Germany was in love is not describing it correctly.

 

[franksredhots]

this guy is out of his mind. Not even worth replying to.

 

[nicoenarg]

Let me try to rephrase: He ran in the presidential elections and lost against Hindenburg. Later in the (separate) elections for the Reichstag his party did not get a majority to make him Chancelor alone. Only with a coalition with anopther party he got the majority of the seats together to become Chancelor.

Yes exactly like with Allende and the Christian Democratic Party. The whole coalition thing is nothing Germans came up with, its used all over the world.

As for Hitler's popularity, you are right, I shouldn't have used the word "love". However the fact that he was popular can't be denied. Here's a paper on it by Ian Kershaw: http://www.historyto...haw/hitler-myth

And this has got nothing to do with calling anyone a coward. Its just a historical observation. (EDIT: doing what I shouldn't) Huge percentage of the population of the country here was supportive of the generals and their fool's errand in the Malvinas in 1982. No one's proposing they're as guilty of the crimes committed by the military here as the military officers themselves.

The point again is, it doesn't matter if someone gets 50% or more of the votes. Allende got 36% of the votes. What does that say about his regime? Does it make it illegal or unconstitutional? Because I could have swore a moment ago all of you jumped on the bandwagon of hysteria when I said "good riddance" about Allende because, let me quote the oft-repeated phrase, "he was democratically elected". And to be clear I never argued against Allende's presidential legitimacy, I am just completely happy that he died when he died. Period. Nothing else to it.

Just to make sure no one else missed it. Regarding Allende's death all I have to say is, GOOD RIDDANCE!

 

[Matiasba]

You re happy that he died when he died. Are you happy of the way he died? under a coup?

 

[nicoenarg]

You re happy that he died when he died. Are you happy of the way he died? under a coup?

Read this post Matias: http://baexpats.org/..._20#entry238374 I have no interest in repeating the same post over and over.

 

[germano]

Yes exactly like with Allende and the Christian Democratic Party. The whole coalition thing is nothing Germans came up with, its used all over the world.

Again that is not correct. Allende was at least the presidential candidate with most of the votes. Hitler lost in the presidential elections against Hindenburg. He only made himself head of the state and commander in chief after the elected president died and through unconstitutional means and after killing and imprisoning most of the opposition in the parliament. And here is the big difference you seem to overlook. Allende didn't kill or imprison the opposition (that included the Christian Democrats). Quite the opposite the constitution was still in place. The one getting rid of the constitution in Chile was Pinochet.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Allende was a constitutional president. You can criticize the Chileans for their choice, but he won the office by following the rules.