Legal Reference About Home "expensas" Needed

[Rawley]

You can make a distinction in the contract between "expensas comunes" and "expensas ordinarias". If it says "comunes" you are not entitled to make any distinction between ordinary and extraordinary expenditures.

 

[Rawley]

The distinction between ordinary and extraordinary expenditures can be found in art. 8 of law 13.512. Incidentally, in CABA, the landlord pays ABL which includes property tax.

 

[Girino]

You can make a distinction in the contract between "expensas comunes" and "expensas ordinarias". If it says "comunes" you are not entitled to make any distinction between ordinary and extraordinary expenditures.

Our contract doesn't say expensas comunes, just expensas. Anyway, just to be clear we also went to our real estate agency to look for a new place, and basically the lady tried to talk us out about searching for a new place!!! I think the agency owner is friend with our landlord (they seemed to know each other from a very long time when we signed the contract). They said the same thing about the ordinary/extraordinary though their contract wasn't so specific. Anyway, it is clear they will never help us again to look for a new place.

San Isidro is becoming more expensive than Capital! I am starting to browse ads of downtown. The only drawback is that Capital is less safe and more noisy.

And yes, I am talking about 1000 ARS/month, which is average but we just have an encargado 4 hours a day, 5 days a week... The consortium clerical expenses amount to 1000 ARS per month (to be split across 24 apartments) and I wonder if they print on golden sheets.... It's like the A-league of scamming.

 

[Rawley]

If it says just "expensas" you are not entitled to make any distinctions. The tenant has to pay them all.

 

[Girino]

The distinction between ordinary and extraordinary expenditures can be found in art. 8 of law 13.512. Incidentally, in CABA, the landlord pays ABL which includes property tax.

I am sorry but I don't see any distinction there, nor it mentions "landlord" or "tenants". What I understand is that in a building of multiple units, each owner is liable proportionally for the common expenses. Then what happens is that once the property is rented, some of these expenses get forwarded to the tenant (e.g. ordinary expenses) according to some.

But then, this article of La Nacion says:

"El locador argumenta que el inquilino se comprometió a pagar todas las expensas siendo que a él le corresponde sólo pagar las expensas comunes, las extraordinarias corresponden al dueño pero hay que aclararlo en el contrato"

So is the implicit distinction between ordinary and extraordinary a common misinterpretation?

 

[Rawley]

Law 13.512 does not deal with the landlord-tenant relationship. It covers ownership issues, among them, all the expenditures owners have. The tenant becomes responsible for the "association fee" due to an agreement with the landlord stated in the lease contract. The "implicit distinction" as you call it, comes for a legal construction: if the text does not make a distinction you are not allowed to construe one.

 

[EricBluegrassFiddle]

Our contract doesn't say expensas comunes, just expensas. Anyway, just to be clear we also went to our real estate agency to look for a new place, and basically the lady tried to talk us out about searching for a new place!!! I think the agency owner is friend with our landlord (they seemed to know each other from a very long time when we signed the contract). They said the same thing about the ordinary/extraordinary though their contract wasn't so specific. Anyway, it is clear they will never help us again to look for a new place.

San Isidro is becoming more expensive than Capital! I am starting to browse ads of downtown. The only drawback is that Capital is less safe and more noisy.

And yes, I am talking about 1000 ARS/month, which is average but we just have an encargado 4 hours a day, 5 days a week... The consortium clerical expenses amount to 1000 ARS per month (to be split across 24 apartments) and I wonder if they print on golden sheets.... It's like the A-league of scamming.

This is just so typical....I loathe and hate realtors of all kinds here in Argentina..... the one I have to deal with right now is a witch, she's the most dispicable, downright nasty, mean and irritating human being I've ever met.....like most martilleros LOL.

Going to pay my rent and even being in her presence is like a trip to the emergency room to have my leg amputated. She and my wife and I have butted heads a few times. But you know, you try to go somewhere else...and low and behold...the same thing.

 

[RodalfoWalsh]

The law is hilarious basically every rental contract in the city is invalid.

 

[Girino]

This is just so typical....I loathe and hate realtors of all kinds here in Argentina..... the one I have to deal with right now is a witch, she's the most dispicable, downright nasty, mean and irritating human being I've ever met.....like most martilleros LOL.

Well, recently a neighbour left the car in neutral after entering the garage door, then, while waiting for the door to close, he got off the car to pick up his mail and the car went backwards against the garage door. The car is insured, but insurance money takes time to arrive and the garage door needed to be repaired ASAP since it could no longer open/close due to the hit and it was unsafe to leave the thing open.

So the admin made the decision to change the door rail and the control box altogether, instead of simply repairing the whole thing, because it was already having some issues.... Now the landlord is asking us to pay this expense because he doesn't make any distinction in expenses... And he says that he consider this replacement a mere repairing. He couldn't care less that we are anticipating insurance money and when it will get we likely no longer be here...

Besides, our apartment has no hot water at night, which is a downward shift in service compared to what we signed up for, but apparently this is irrelevant this time!

 

[EricBluegrassFiddle]

Well, recently a neighbour left the car in neutral after entering the garage door, then, while waiting for the door to close, he got off the car to pick up his mail and the car went backwards against the garage door. The car is insured, but insurance money takes time to arrive and the garage door needed to be repaired ASAP since it could no longer open/close due to the hit and it was unsafe to leave the thing open.

So the admin made the decision to change the door rail and the control box altogether, instead of simply repairing the whole thing, because it was already having some issues.... Now the landlord is asking us to pay this expense because he doesn't make any distinction in expenses... And he says that he consider this replacement a mere repairing. He couldn't care less that we are anticipating insurance money and when it will get we likely no longer be here...

Besides, our apartment has no hot water at night, which is a downward shift in service compared to what we signed up for, but apparently this is irrelevant this time!

I feel your pain.....but it's life in Argentina!! This is every day stuff....especially the hot water issue! Plumbing is an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE anywhere in Argentina. It breaks frequently, is costly to repair and NEVER get's done. Stay here long enough and you'll eventually deal with it.

We didn't have hot water for the first whole winter my wife and I were married in our first apartment. Try cold showering in 40 degrees in the evening every night ( sometimes colder. Had to constantly repair the calefont ( hot water heater ) in the kitchen because it was basically crap. I complained to our landlord and he griped and griped....finally I got my father-in-law to help me fix it. We had to replace the aluminum coil on the inside ( it's kinda like a big radiator in a way, water passes through it, the coil is heated by gas, and water comes out hot LOL ).

Then our landlord just decides to fix all the plumbing in his place downstairs and my apartment upstairs. Hired this guy and sent him all over the house and apartment breaking down walls, taking out plumbing....a literal nightmare. This guy tore all of our walls out, filled my apartment up with dust and plaster and holes for like 3 months. We had a rat get inside for 3 days that I finally killed in our closet with a broomstick LOL. Every morning at 8 am the "albañil" (constrcution guy) showing up and BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG....on the walls with a sledge taking out the plumbing ( which was basically pure crap ) all day long. I'd leave from work....BANG BANG BANG...come home....BANG BANG BANG...LOL

This went on ALL winter....almost every day, every morning. He had one guy doing this. Then after it was done....we still had problems with the plumbing!!! I mean...stuff breaks here, constantly...like alot. It's not like back home. So, this project was done and our landlord tried to raise our rent to cover the costs of the "repairs" which WASN'T legal nor a part of our contract so we had to hire a lawyer with him and his realtor to arbitrate. It was a nightmare... on top of it all...my poor argentine wife was 7 months pregnant with our son....

But then again....it's Argentina.....who hasn't gone through this stuff. It's life here, you have to fight and butt heads and battle with everything constantly all the time....and get little done....just like all the other argentines. It's just the way it is and it's not going to change anytime soon.

Look in rural Argentina or the small towns, most folks, they don't even have hot water...none "zilch" at all...ever. They heat it up on the stove, or they have a plastic bucket in the bathroom in the shower area that's hooked up to an electric socket ( or maybe a calefont with a pipe. You fill this plastic bucket thing up with about 3 or 4 gallons of water, plug in the chord to the wall, wait about 5 minutes until it heats up the water, then you pull a string attached to a little shower nozzle thing and hot water comes slowly out over your head until the bucket emtpies. Then if you want more hot water you repeat the process again. I can't tell you how many times I showered like that in houses in rural argentina....

I'm just saying...I know it's a pain, but we've all been through it...alot of us....it's just the way it is here..

Even so the garage door issue, I'm not sure about that.....you're gonna have to fight it. You know if you move out and go somewhere else it'll just be the same thing unfortunately. I mean what your describing is just all too common here unfortunately. You just have to fight and bang your head through everything here....my wifes taught me that....she's a fiery one and I've watched her deal with this kinda stuff and get things done and she's argentine.....she's my "argentina coach" LOL

It sucks, it really does,,,but it's all so common what you're describing here. Argentina has taught me many things...I think it's hardened me a little...thickened my skin some and I've learned to deal with things head on....I dunno, it's just one of the things eventually folks learn here coming from somewhere else. Here there's no concept of "convenience" none at all...they don't understand it, they don't consider it....it just "isn't"

Here it's mostly inconvenience and you just deal with it and frankly do without alot of times. You have to be confrontational all the time and just push. This is difficult for alot of expats, especially from the US or Europe who are used to convenience and not being trifled with stuff going badly, breaking, not getting done etc. Unfortunately we learn the hard way and it's tough sometimes....my wife just laughs at me sometimes she's like: "You americans, everything needs to be perfect and you want it yesterday" I mean...she told me that a number of times....you know it humbled me alot. I've been humbled and humiliated alot since being here...but I'm also better for it. I'd say it's one of my most important lessons that life in Argentina has taught me.