Macri's hilarious speech

#11
What choices have they got savage capitalism or crazy communism
I would hardly consider irresponsible money printing "Savage capitalism" if anything that is what the Savage capitalists most denounce. If it was up to the"Savage capitalists" there would be no Central Bank printing money.
Government Fiat currency is an instrument of people who believe in and defend Central planning of the economy.
 
#12
I would hardly consider irresponsible money printing "Savage capitalism" if anything that is what the Savage capitalists most denounce. If it was up to the"Savage capitalists" there would be no Central Bank printing money.
Government Fiat currency is an instrument of people who believe in and defend Central planning of the economy.
Don't be mislead has nothing to do with the Fiat Italian Auto :rolleyes: In doubt check for Fiat meaning in Latin..;)
 
#13
No, I did not miss the irony. Still, a flippant comment does not feel right when so many can't make ends meet. This is the first time I've seen people really desperate. They face a dismal choice between Macri or Cristina, and the future looks black indeed.
Argentines know what being desperate is. I think they have seen worse.
 
#14
It was terrible in 2001. People lost their life savings when the banks froze accounts and converted dollar accounts to devalued pesos. I remember walking into a restaurant and there was one diner at peak time. People couldn't get access to their money, what was left of it.
I remember there were a lot of students worked at bars and clubs, the people would never visit/work at the bars and clubs before. Everyone was working, the streets were full of worrying people.
 
#15
In 2001, people have less money, and money has much less buying power, about 66% less buying power, all of sudden.
Today, people have more money (peso), but the money has less buying power each day. So 2001 was worse.
 
#17
Obviously 2001 was worse than now, but this "crisis" is just starting. We have yet to see how it fully evolves.
Long crisis are worse than a harsh short crisis . In 2001 Argentina experienced its ground zero but by 2003 it was recovering and by 2005 it was booming . Greece which is very similar to Argentina in the sense of its foreign debt and imf has been in a slow descent to hell for now 10 years . Peoples lives have been decimated in all aspects ( except a small elite that are wealthier than ever) The minimum wage in Greece is the lowest in Europe , drug use and prostitution are at epidemic proportions . 10 years have passed for Greece and still the suffering is intense . Property prices in Athens have dropped over 60 % in euros and only now are stable and recovering slightly . This article shows that property prices in Athens nosedived over 60% in many neighbourhoods of Athens ( in some cases more ) From 2008 to 2018 the market has been sliding and only since last year there is a improvement in some neighbourhoods mostly due to asian investors .,

https://greece.greekreporter.com/20...ce-2008-athens-real-estate-market-stabilizes/

For this reason a long crisis is much more damaging and this time the situation in Argentina has the potential to be worse than 2001 .
 
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#18
Long crisis are worse than a harsh short crisis . In 2001 Argentina experienced its ground zero but by 2003 it was recovering and by 2005 it was booming . Greece which is very similar to Argentina in the sense of its foreign debt and imf has been in a slow descent to hell for now 10 years . Peoples lives have been decimated in all aspects ( except a small elite that are wealthier than ever) The minimum wage in Greece is the lowest in Europe , drug use and prostitution are at epidemic proportions . 10 years have passed for Greece and still the suffering is intense . Property prices in Athens have dropped over 60 % in euros and only now are stable and recovering slightly . This article shows that property prices in Athens nosedived over 60% in many neighbourhoods of Athens ( in some cases more ) From 2008 to 2018 the market has been sliding and only since last year there is a improvement in some neighbourhoods mostly due to asian investors .,

https://greece.greekreporter.com/20...ce-2008-athens-real-estate-market-stabilizes/

For this reason a long crisis is much more damaging and this time the situation in Argentina has the potential to be worse than 2001 .
The numbers quoted in the Greek article seem to be a little bit off. He was talking about all the poor neighborhoods, did not mention anything about Kolonaki(Athens Recoleta) or Glyfada (Athens Palermo), these areas are the areas mostly bought by Golden Visa people, many wealthy people fled to Athens from middle east, from Turkey, Syria, Greece is the only country they feel comfortable, they like the identical food, they even look similar, feel like home. Many still have business in middle east, they just buy real estate in Greece to get residency and run away from their countries if something is wrong. I have met many turks in US who know the neighborhoods in Athens well.

I think one of the reasons for Greece to have slow recovery is that Greece does not have the power to print money, EU decides how much Euro Greeks can have, that screws the Greeks but keeps the inflation low for them. I have been visiting Athens in the past 3 years, and 5 times last year. Athens does not look anything like Buenos Aires in 2001. The restaurants are full, Greeks love to eat, drink and smoke outside. The average Greeks make more and have higher living standard than Argentines for sure. Spain is 1-2 notches higher than Argentina and Greece is at least 1 notch above Argentina in terms of pretty much everything. But one thing Argentines do better than Greeks is that Argentines save more for rainy days, they have seen bad days, they do not panic when high inflation comes, they like to travel, they are not big saving people but they save more than Greeks. Greeks have good medical cares and social support system, probably they worry less and spend when they have something in their pockets.
 
#19
The numbers quoted in the Greek article seem to be a little bit off. He was talking about all the poor neighborhoods, did not mention anything about Kolonaki(Athens Recoleta) or Glyfada (Athens Palermo), these areas are the areas mostly bought by Golden Visa people, many wealthy people fled to Athens from middle east, from Turkey, Syria, Greece is the only country they feel comfortable, they like the identical food, they even look similar, feel like home. Many still have business in middle east, they just buy real estate in Greece to get residency and run away from their countries if something is wrong. I have met many turks in US who know the neighborhoods in Athens well.

I think one of the reasons for Greece to have slow recovery is that Greece does not have the power to print money, EU decides how much Euro Greeks can have, that screws the Greeks but keeps the inflation low for them. I have been visiting Athens in the past 3 years, and 5 times last year. Athens does not look anything like Buenos Aires in 2001. The restaurants are full, Greeks love to eat, drink and smoke outside. The average Greeks make more and have higher living standard than Argentines for sure. Spain is 1-2 notches higher than Argentina and Greece is at least 1 notch above Argentina in terms of pretty much everything. But one thing Argentines do better than Greeks is that Argentines save more for rainy days, they have seen bad days, they do not panic when high inflation comes, they like to travel, they are not big saving people but they save more than Greeks. Greeks have good medical cares and social support system, probably they worry less and spend when they have something in their pockets.
Greek people if they have money love to enjoy life and are known to be extravagant . Unfortunately today those who have money are just a small percentage of the population that live in a few up market neighbourhoods of Athens similar to Buenos Aires. Most people though live on the minimum but with a small elite class that live in Palermo . Recoleta , Barrio Norte , Belgrano etc etc .
To judge a city by a few wealthy neighbourhoods is a grave mistake as many argentinians live in suburbs like La Matanza with a population of over 1 million They if they are lucky to be working and earn the minimum wage per month . The working poor of these neighbourhoods have to travel many hours a day just to be able to earn 500 pesos a day just 12 dollars more or less .
http://www.lamatanza.gov.ar/matanza/poblacion

Greece in 2008 had a minimum wage that was close to double what it is now and with costs of services that were a fraction of the cost of today . Still the minimum wage of 600 Euros a month is much higher than Argentinas .
At the beginning of 2018 Argentina overtook Greece for a higher minimum wage but then we had the devaluation and Argentina has dropped down the list

https://greece.greekreporter.com/2018/12/28/greece-lags-behind-in-minimum-wage-purchasing-power/


The biggest issue in Greece is the outrageous cost of services for basics as Electricity and gas . Electrical costs are the highest in Europe sending many people into poverty . This to me is a great crime against humanity as public services should never be a weapon for the rich to tax the poor .

https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2...ouseholds-increased-by-157-in-last-ten-years/

30% of Greeks are having problems to pay their electricity bills and many have to live with using candles or the light of a television to get by .

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...austerity-turned-off-the-lights-idUSKBN1781IQ
 
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