Milei’s Amputation Regime for Argentina

[toast]

It's speculation but I wonder what would have happened had Massa won. Would inflation have reached current levels - or would it have taken longer to get there? How long could the status quo have been maintained? Mieli's plan is admittedly extreme and deeply painful. How long can people manage under these conditions? And what is the alternative? Regarding the article's comparison to communism, Communist regimes in places like the USSR actually valued culture and the arts. They heavily subsidized theatre, classical music, opera, ballet. These brought prestige to the nation and contributed to the well-being of the people. When it came to books, only those that were compatible with communism were published so Solzhenitsyn was only available through the underground market but one could easily get a copy of woks by authors like Theodore Dreiser.

Artists and athletes in the Soviet system were groomed and exploited as servants to the propaganda goals of their masters. And discarded when they were no longer useful. My view is they did not contribute to the well being of the people, just glory to the leadership. Under Putin, the state control of information is so complete, critics of Putin are in exile, imprisoned, or dead. When the state pays artists, you get what you pay for.

 

[sergio]

Artists and athletes in the Soviet system were groomed and exploited as servants to the propaganda goals of their masters. And discarded when they were no longer useful. My view is they did not contribute to the well being of the people, just glory to the leadership. Under Putin, the state control of information is so complete, critics of Putin are in exile, imprisoned, or dead. When the state pays artists, you get what you pay for.

The topic was not Putin but the USSR under communism. How do you figure that the public did not benefit from the plethora of classical music, ballet, theatre etc? On my two trips to the USSR I attended a number of classical performances. This was the case even in remote places like Uzbekistan. That life was controlled goes without saying but there was nevertheless impressive cultural life in the USSR.

 

[SinPulgas]

The topic was not Putin but the USSR under communism. How do you figure that the public did not benefit from the plethora of classical music, ballet, theatre etc? On my two trips to the USSR I attended a number of classical performances. This was the case even in remote places like Uzbekistan. That life was controlled goes without saying but there was nevertheless impressive cultural life in the USSR.

When I was young, I worked with a couple of Russian software engineers that managed to get out of the USSR when it was nearly impossible to do so. Neither of them ever experienced any kind of cultural life at all.

One had lived in St. Petersburg, the other in Moscow. In both cities, everyone received 6 meters of space per person, so a family of 5 lived in an apartment of 30 meters.

The both described their living conditions as extreme poverty. I was talking to the one from Moscow one day, trying to get him to describe how life was in Moscow. He told me, "You know how people on welfare live in your country? Well living in Moscow is like that for 99% of the population."

 

[redlobster]

When I was young, I worked with a couple of Russian software engineers that managed to get out of the USSR when it was nearly impossible to do so. Neither of them ever experienced any kind of cultural life at all.

During the Soviet era, the average salary of an engineer was about 150 rubles, and the price of a theater ticket was two rubles. So, theater tickets were quite affordable.

I am not saying that life was easy by any means. And yes, from an economic standpoint, a welfare recipient in the US probably lived better than a Soviet engineer. However, if educated people from Moscow or St. Petersburg didn't experience any kind of cultural life, it was by choice, not by necessity.

 

[SinPulgas]

...However, if educated people from Moscow or St. Petersburg didn't experience any kind of cultural life, it was by choice, not by necessity.

So you had friends that gave you their first hand knowledge of what was going on there? Because these people, living their whole lives in two separate cities in Russia before coming to the US, told me many stories in the couple years that I worked with them that absolutely contradict what you're saying.

(About wages at the time, my friend Sasha told me, "In Russia, we have a saying. We pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us.")

 

[redlobster]

... that absolutely contradict what you're saying.

I don't see a contradiction there. They say they didn't experience any kind of cultural life. For some reason, you assume that's because they couldn't afford it.

For the price of a single one-way plane ticket to the US, they could buy 900 theater tickets in Moscow. If they could only afford it, naturally.

 

[Rich One]

Please comment ..
Once Miley's policies reach the 1 digit monthly inflation rate, say it's 6 % . Then the annual inflation rate will be 72 % plus. Argentina will be among the top countries with highest inflation rates in the world.... Then what must be done next.?


High Inflation Nations (Jan 2024)

Country CPI inflation%
Venezuela 189.8
Zimbabwe 26.5
Argentina 211.4
Sudan 71.6
Turkey 64
Source: International Monetary Fund, central bank data

 

[ben]

It's speculation but I wonder what would have happened had Massa won. Would inflation have reached current levels - or would it have taken longer to get there? How long could the status quo have been maintained? Mieli's plan is admittedly extreme and deeply painful. How long can people manage under these conditions? And what is the alternative? Regarding the article's comparison to communism, Communist regimes in places like the USSR actually valued culture and the arts. They heavily subsidized theatre, classical music, opera, ballet. These brought prestige to the nation and contributed to the well-being of the people. When it came to books, only those that were compatible with communism were published so Solzhenitsyn was only available through the underground market but one could easily get a copy of woks by authors like Theodore Dreiser.

As a child of emigrés from the Communist bloc, it is difficult to distill into words the extent of the eye-rolling posts like this induce.
Sure, theatre, classical music, opera, ballet were indeed all subsidized. There was merely the issue of procuring food.
Black markets were not just for Solzhenitsyn, but for basic necessities of life - it was the only place you could get things.

As for over the table, I present you a typical joke from the 80’s:
(walking into a store) “There isn’t any meat left here?”
“No, here there’s no fish. There’s no meat in the store across the street”.

 

[SinPulgas]

I don't see a contradiction there. They say they didn't experience any kind of cultural life. For some reason, you assume that's because they couldn't afford it.

For the price of a single one-way plane ticket to the US, they could buy 900 theater tickets in Moscow. If they could only afford it, naturally.

I guess I wasn't clear enough, so I'll be a bit clearer. They told me that in the USSR they lived in abject poverty. Always.

 

[sergio]

As a child of emigrés from the Communist bloc, it is difficult to distill into words the extent of the eye-rolling posts like this induce.
Sure, theatre, classical music, opera, ballet were indeed all subsidized. There was merely the issue of procuring food.
Black markets were not just for Solzhenitsyn, but for basic necessities of life - it was the only place you could get things.

As for over the table, I present you a typical joke from the 80’s:
(walking into a store) “There isn’t any meat left here?”
“No, here there’s no fish. There’s no meat in the store across the street”.

There is nothing inaccurate in my post (which was NOT about the shortage of food and other consumer goods in the USSR and other Communist countries of Eastern Europe). As you said, the arts were heavily subsidized and accessible to the public. Aside from the limitations imposed by censorship which primarily affected publishing and the theatre, the Russians excelled at classical arts which is why they produced so many important ballet dancers and singers. The inefficiency of the communist system of industrial production is another matter. At this time many Argentines are going without essential food or necessities while the current government ALSO cuts or eliminates arts subsidies.