Pirate state of Israel

[orwellian]

Attacking navy vessels on international waters used to be done solely by Somalian Pirates. Now the terrorist state of Israel has outdone them by murdering and kidnapping aid workers on international waters. Of course, as usual, they justify it by "self-defense". The efficiency of the Israeli propaganda ministry would make Goebbels envious.
The attack drew criticism from basically the whole world, except of course, the U.S. Although the UN security counsel did condemn the attack.
Again Israel has shown, that it has no respect for international law.

 

[redrum]

israel appears to be getting more and more brazen in their terrorist activities.

i love how 10 civilians are killed because professional commandos were being attacked by knives and sticks. and how an israeli initiated pre-dawn raid becomes self defense. you can't make this stuff up folks.

of course, israel has zero blame.

i love this one:

"Israeli officials say that the soldiers were dropped into an ambush and were attacked with clubs, metal rods and knives."

haha.

 

[bigbadwolf]

It was an Israeli ship attacked by Al-Qaeda mercenaries as the Israelis bravely attempted to get past the blockade set up by Hamas to starve their own Palestinian people in Gaza.

 

[orwellian]

A word on the legal position, which is very plain. To attack a foreign flagged vessel in international waters is illegal. It is not piracy, as the Israeli vessels carried a military commission. It is rather an act of illegal warfare.

Because the incident took place on the high seas does not mean however that international law is the only applicable law. The Law of the Sea is quite plain that, when an incident takes place
on a ship on the high seas (outside anybody's territorial waters) the applicable law is that of the flag state of the ship on which the incident occurred. In legal terms, the Turkish ship was Turkish territory.

There are therefore two clear legal possibilities.

Possibility one is that the Israeli commandos were acting on behalf of the government of Israel in killing the activists on the ships. In that case Israel is in a position of war with Turkey, and the act falls under international jurisdiction as a war crime.

Possibility two is that, if the killings were not authorised Israeli military action, they were acts of murder under Turkish jurisdiction. If Israel does not consider itself in a position of war with Turkey, then it must hand over the commandos involved for trial in Turkey under Turkish law.

In brief, if Israel and Turkey are not at war, then it is Turkish law which is applicable to what happened on the ship. It is for Turkey, not Israel, to carry out any inquiry or investigation into events and to initiate any prosecutions. Israel is obliged to hand over indicted personnel for prosecution.

Craig Murray is a former British Ambassador. He is also a former Head of the Maritime Section of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/05/the_legal_posit.html

 

[cabrera]

There are no apologies for this tragedy and war crime committed by Israel against a ship in international waters. Killing people is never justified and especially so in a act of terrorism blatantly carried out by the dictatorial state of Israel.

I know of no other country that shamelessly carries out these acts of agressions on a regular basis and gets away with it without sanctions nor the isolation of the world community . If Argentina or Greece or Turkey did this they would be bombed in a minute by these people who consider themselves above the laws.

The world has grown tired of the propaganda of Israel and its debasement of human values that seem endemic in its leadership . They do not respect human rights nor human dignity and have created the worse concentration camp in the western world today Gaza .

A great majority of people in Argentina and South America believe that sanctions should be applied to Israel as only with international isolation will Israel change its ways.

 

[bigbadwolf]

The world has grown tired of the propaganda of Israel and its debasement of human values that seem endemic in its leadership . They do not respect human rights nor human dignity and have created the worse concentration camp in the western world today Gaza .

A great majority of people in Argentina and South America believe that sanctions should be applied to Israel as only with international isolation will Israel change its ways.

Its friend, the equally lawless USA, supports and shields it. The European vassal states twiddle their thumbs. Israel and the USA together are now producing a barrage of excuses, red herrings, and disinformation. According to the Israeli deputy foreign minister (Ayalon) there were 30-40 Al-Qaeda operative abroad, and this was a flotilla of "hate and destruction" (Netanyahu).

 

[orwellian]

Somali Pirates vs Israel.

1. Hijacks ships: Yes / Yes.

2. Feeds hostages: Yes / No

3. Kills hostages: No / Yes

Somali pirates win. They are more civilized than the terrorist state.

 

[Choripán]

Somali Pirates vs Israel.

1. Hijacks ships: Yes / Yes.

2. Feeds hostages: Yes / No

3. Kills hostages: No / Yes

Somali pirates win. They are more civilized than the terrorist state.

Orwellian - great points, well done! I'm quite happy to find myself on your side of this issue this time around. Though I'm not so sure about the broader "more civilized" assessment... As you pointed out in an earlier post, hifalutin civilization and vengeful blood lust posing as self defense have often expressed themselves in the same self-righteous foreign policy, whether Napoleonic or Bushian forced democratization, Christian or Muslim evangelicalism, or good old fashioned economic imperialism. Come to think of it, that pretty much sums up the majority of modern human history. Isn't the claim to advanced civilization often nothing more than a pretext for violence and domination of those we have targeted as "uncivilized"?

Anyway, the Israelis certainly fall into the state-sponsored terrorist camp these days, as your excellent posts on the subject make painfully clear. For what else can you call a violent and politically symbolic hit on an unarmed group of civilians? Somehow Netanyahu's pathetic assertion of "self-defense" doesn't quite ring true.

(This is slightly off topic but isn't it interesting how "Netanyahu" sounds a lot like "nut and yahoo" when you say it fast?)

PS - I hope you aren't singling out the Somalis pirates for praise because they are the closest approximation to the anarcho-socialist-libertarian politics you so deeply love...

 

[Choripán]

Its friend, the equally lawless USA, supports and shields it. The European vaasal states twiddle their thumbs. Israel and the USA together are now producing a barrage of excuses, red herrings, and disinformation. According to the Israeli deputy foreign minister (Ayalon) there were 30-40 Al-Qaeda operative abroad, and this was a flotilla of "hate and destruction" (Netanyahu).

BBW - You weaken your position with the hyperbole. The US is not a "lawless" state, and neither is Israel. You may not like the laws, you may want different laws, but the vast majority of human behavior is both states is conducted in a lawful manner.

The fact is that US and Israeli foreign policy are lawful (that is, procedurally legitimate) but deeply immoral (that is, substantively indefensible). What this means is that one should always work within the confines of the laws (more or less) to achieve substantive changes in policy. It's a much better approach than simply writing off the whole of western democracy.

 

[bigbadwolf]

BBW - You weaken your position with the hyperbole. The US is not a "lawless" state, and neither is Israel. You may not like the laws, you may want different laws, but the vast majority of human behavior is both states is conducted in a lawful manner.

The fact is that US and Israeli foreign policy are lawful (that is, procedurally legitimate) but deeply immoral (that is, substantively indefensible). What this means is that one should always work within the confines of the laws (more or less) to achieve substantive changes in policy.

Both states contravene international laws at will. The USA abrogates treaties at will. The US actively opposes measures that might place it or its operatives under an umbrella of laws and international courts. The storming of the Turkish vessel flouts in international waters flouts international law and effectively constitutes an act of war. The Israeli occupation of the West Bank runs counter to UN resolutions. When the US could not get UN approval for the invasion of Iraq, it just ignored it and went ahead anyway.

It's a much better approach than simply writing off the whole of western democracy.

This statement is at odds with what you wrote in a slightly earlier post about "hifalutin civilisation." Western democracy is a veneer for imperialism and militarism. This is not hyperbole.