Plans to build a Mormon temple next to a historic convent

[MilHojas]

Polémica en el centro porteño: proyectan construir un templo mormón junto a un convento histórico de casi 300 años

El proyecto para construir un templo junto al convento de Santa Catalina genera preocupación en organizaciones vecinales, que piden convertir el predio en plaza pública y resaltan su valor patrimonial

www-infobae-com.translate.goog

Original article in Spanish

2 new temple renderings released

These new temples will be the seventh and 27th in their respective countries.

www.deseret.com

 

[Ries]

Thats the big parking lot right near Galeria Pacifico. Seems like a weird place to build a mormon temple to me. I live in that neighborhood and its artists, drag queens, jubilados. The mormons would have to drive infrom the suburbs.

 

[chris]

Thats the big parking lot right near Galeria Pacifico. Seems like a weird place to build a mormon temple to me. I live in that neighborhood and its artists, drag queens, jubilados. The mormons would have to drive infrom the suburbs.

Do all Mormons live in the suburbs? My impression is that Mormonism in Argentina tends to attract less affluent people which is the case with evangelical Protestantism in Latin America. If the Mormons were to build in the suburbs surely that would restrict future converts. The location seems ideal. The design of the building is not bad. The Mormon Church is well financed. I imagine the building and grounds will be well maintained and could very well help revive the area. The close proximity of a no longer functioning convent strikes me as irrelevant.

 

[Ries]

currently there are mormon temples in quilmes, liniers, and ciudad evita- all conurbano barrios where lower income people live. but all, technically, suburbs. I see the poor teenage mormon "elders" fresh from utah, wearing their polyester shirts and clip on ties, on the colectivos from time to time.
overall, in the entire country, there are something like 440,000 latter day saints in argentina, but I still think the microcentro/san nicolas is not a very likely area for mass converts.
there is already neighborhood opposition to this temple- the barrio wants the land to become a park.
there is an article in the june 11 Clarin about this, you can read it here- https://srsur.com.ar/real_estate/genera-polemica-el-primer-templo-mormon-en-la-city-portena/24872/
the property abuts a very old and historic convent, and there may be human remains as well as archeological value in the proposed site. historically there were 2 cemeteries there, and it has been green space for most of the time since the 1740s, with a relatively short lived undistinguished shopping there for a short time.
It will need the argentine equivalent of a special use permit- a specific exception to the prevailing zoning. This requires connections and money, most of the time, which, I would assume, the Mormons have, but it will no doubt be controversial, especially in the heart of the city.
The neighborhood is changing a lot, and there are more eyes on what is being built there than there used to be.

I actually have a friend who was the architect for the temple out by Ezieza, which is pretty suburban and fits the landscape- but this one is a very central urban spot. But that was in the mid 80s, and the political and civic climates towards big development were very different.

Interestingly enough, the probable architects for this one wont publicly admit it- which is kind of odd, as they are one of the biggest and most prestigious firms in town.

Me, I am against it. I think its an inappropriate use for a very central and important space- not many parcels that big come up in the central part of the city, and this rare occasion should be considered carefully.

 

[elhombresinnombre]

currently there are mormon temples in quilmes, liniers, and ciudad evita- all conurbano barrios where lower income people live. but all, technically, suburbs. I see the poor teenage mormon "elders" fresh from utah, wearing their polyester shirts and clip on ties, on the colectivos from time to time.
overall, in the entire country, there are something like 440,000 latter day saints in argentina, but I still think the microcentro/san nicolas is not a very likely area for mass converts.
there is already neighborhood opposition to this temple- the barrio wants the land to become a park.
there is an article in the june 11 Clarin about this, you can read it here- https://srsur.com.ar/real_estate/genera-polemica-el-primer-templo-mormon-en-la-city-portena/24872/
the property abuts a very old and historic convent, and there may be human remains as well as archeological value in the proposed site. historically there were 2 cemeteries there, and it has been green space for most of the time since the 1740s, with a relatively short lived undistinguished shopping there for a short time.
It will need the argentine equivalent of a special use permit- a specific exception to the prevailing zoning. This requires connections and money, most of the time, which, I would assume, the Mormons have, but it will no doubt be controversial, especially in the heart of the city.
The neighborhood is changing a lot, and there are more eyes on what is being built there than there used to be.

I actually have a friend who was the architect for the temple out by Ezieza, which is pretty suburban and fits the landscape- but this one is a very central urban spot. But that was in the mid 80s, and the political and civic climates towards big development were very different.

Interestingly enough, the probable architects for this one wont publicly admit it- which is kind of odd, as they are one of the biggest and most prestigious firms in town.

Me, I am against it. I think its an inappropriate use for a very central and important space- not many parcels that big come up in the central part of the city, and this rare occasion should be considered carefully.

I don't mean to be too pedantic about this but just as with episcopal Christianity there is symbolism in the building designs and a distinction between chapels, churches and cathedrals - so with LDS buildings there is a difference in meaning and purpose between chapels, meeting houses and temples. (Other religions have their own similar demarcations too.) Until or unless they build one in the centre of the city, there's only one LDS Temple in the Buenos Aires region and that's the one in Ciudad Evita and the location and design are purposeful. Any other LDS buildings you may see are either meeting houses or chapels.

If you are evangelising and growing your church you want to build meeting houses and chapels in the communities where people live. If you are sending a message through architecture and location then you build a temple right where your message will be seen. It's no mistake that the Ciudad Evita Temple is seen by millions of people travelling to and from Ezeiza airport every year.

Whether the city grants permission for the central temple remains to be seen and I think the idea of an archeological dig before work commences is a good one - provided that's not being used as a tactic to stall the development. Either say yes or say no - don't kick the can down the road with interminable "research."

If you are interested in LDS Temples there's quite an interesting article and slideshow here:

Understanding the architecture of Mormon temples

Unveiling what lies in (and out) Mormon temples' walls

www.starsinsider.com

(It's syndicated to a lot of publications - this was just the first I came across)

Disclaimer: I am not a member of LDS - in fact after what I saw during a visit to Salt Lake City I'd say I was more antipathetic than anything - mellowed in part by having seen The Book Of Mormon musical when it came to my local theatre in the UK

 

[Ries]

I don't mean to be too pedantic about this but just as with episcopal Christianity there is symbolism in the building designs and a distinction between chapels, churches and cathedrals - so with LDS buildings there is a difference in meaning and purpose between chapels, meeting houses and temples. (Other religions have their own similar demarcations too.) Until or unless they build one in the centre of the city, there's only one LDS Temple in the Buenos Aires region and that's the one in Ciudad Evita and the location and design are purposeful. Any other LDS buildings you may see are either meeting houses or chapels.

If you are evangelising and growing your church you want to build meeting houses and chapels in the communities where people live. If you are sending a message through architecture and location then you build a temple right where your message will be seen. It's no mistake that the Ciudad Evita Temple is seen by millions of people travelling to and from Ezeiza airport every year.

Whether the city grants permission for the central temple remains to be seen and I think the idea of an archeological dig before work commences is a good one - provided that's not being used as a tactic to stall the development. Either say yes or say no - don't kick the can down the road with interminable "research."

If you are interested in LDS Temples there's quite an interesting article and slideshow here:

Understanding the architecture of Mormon temples

Unveiling what lies in (and out) Mormon temples' walls

www.starsinsider.com

(It's syndicated to a lot of publications - this was just the first I came across)

Disclaimer: I am not a member of LDS - in fact after what I saw during a visit to Salt Lake City I'd say I was more antipathetic than anything - mellowed in part by having seen The Book Of Mormon musical when it came to my local theatre in the UK

as a third generation non-religious believer, I am not that knowledgeable about the details, be it Latter Day Saints, or Cargo Cult. But my concerns are civic, land use, and public benefit.

 

[chris]

currently there are mormon temples in quilmes, liniers, and ciudad evita- all conurbano barrios where lower income people live. but all, technically, suburbs. I see the poor teenage mormon "elders" fresh from utah, wearing their polyester shirts and clip on ties, on the colectivos from time to time.
overall, in the entire country, there are something like 440,000 latter day saints in argentina, but I still think the microcentro/san nicolas is not a very likely area for mass converts.
there is already neighborhood opposition to this temple- the barrio wants the land to become a park.
there is an article in the june 11 Clarin about this, you can read it here- https://srsur.com.ar/real_estate/genera-polemica-el-primer-templo-mormon-en-la-city-portena/24872/
the property abuts a very old and historic convent, and there may be human remains as well as archeological value in the proposed site. historically there were 2 cemeteries there, and it has been green space for most of the time since the 1740s, with a relatively short lived undistinguished shopping there for a short time.
It will need the argentine equivalent of a special use permit- a specific exception to the prevailing zoning. This requires connections and money, most of the time, which, I would assume, the Mormons have, but it will no doubt be controversial, especially in the heart of the city.
The neighborhood is changing a lot, and there are more eyes on what is being built there than there used to be.

I actually have a friend who was the architect for the temple out by Ezieza, which is pretty suburban and fits the landscape- but this one is a very central urban spot. But that was in the mid 80s, and the political and civic climates towards big development were very different.

Interestingly enough, the probable architects for this one wont publicly admit it- which is kind of odd, as they are one of the biggest and most prestigious firms in town.

Me, I am against it. I think its an inappropriate use for a very central and important space- not many parcels that big come up in the central part of the city, and this rare occasion should be considered carefully.

You are very observant to be able to detect polyester shirts and a clip on ties. I am sure, though, that the Mormon missionaries who you deem 'poor' by which I assume you mean that you disapprove of them, have the money to buy their clothes at James Smart should they choose. The miocrocenter is pretty depressed, isn't it? I should think that the temple would add some value. If it fails to attract converts, that is the problem for the Mormons but they seem savvy so I suspect they know what they are doing. I am not a Mormon and don't wish to be however I have no prejudice against their religion. Argentina is an increasingly diverse society. I see no good reason to oppose this project.

 

[chris]

as a third generation non-religious believer, I am not that knowledgeable about the details, be it Latter Day Saints, or Cargo Cult. But my concerns are civic, land use, and public benefit.

Your disparaging comments about Mormon elders imply dislike of the Mormon faith. But perhaps I misunderstood you.

 

[Ries]

Your disparaging comments about Mormon elders imply dislike of the Mormon faith. But perhaps I misunderstood you.

i am inherently skeptical of all organized religion.
every major religion has endorsed, in writing, for hundreds or thousands of years, slavery, racism, misogyny, polygamy, child marriage, torture, and forced conversion. Several have disavowed these things only recently, within my lifetime.
Many still have branches of the religion that do so today.
So, no, not "dislike"- just moral and ethical disagreements.

have had my doorbell rung several times in different US cities by clueless 19 year old "elders" who have been sent out on a mission to convert me.
i feel sorry for them, hence the use of the word "poor"
I think its analagous to sending your kids door to door selling tupperware or fuller brush products, myself.
Cruel and unusual punishment.
They are supposed to pay for their own missions, some save money from summer jobs, others have family help. Very few are rich, and they are not getting paid by the church.
I also have had several good friends who were excommunicated from the Latter Day Saints, for sins like cohabitation with a member of the opposite sex, or being gay.

I would not describe Retiro or San Nicolas as "pretty depressed", myself.
The site is 3 blocks from Borges longtime home, there are many very expensive apartments very close by, and locals include movie stars, famous authors, university professors, millionaires, businessmen, and more.
There are still quite a few literal palaces in the neighborhood. The Kavanagh is one of the most desirable buildings in the city.
Lots of very good restaurants, some quite pricy. Large and expensive hotels.
It, like most urban areas of Buenos Aires, has a mix of people, incomes, and values, and everybody gets along.

I fail to see how a Mormon house of worship would add 'value".
A park- yes- Porteno use parks in gigantic numbers and can always use more outdoor space.
'

 

[chris]

i am inherently skeptical of all organized religion.
every major religion has endorsed, in writing, for hundreds or thousands of years, slavery, racism, misogyny, polygamy, child marriage, torture, and forced conversion. Several have disavowed these things only recently, within my lifetime.
Many still have branches of the religion that do so today.
So, no, not "dislike"- just moral and ethical disagreements.

have had my doorbell rung several times in different US cities by clueless 19 year old "elders" who have been sent out on a mission to convert me.
i feel sorry for them, hence the use of the word "poor"
I think its analagous to sending your kids door to door selling tupperware or fuller brush products, myself.
Cruel and unusual punishment.
They are supposed to pay for their own missions, some save money from summer jobs, others have family help. Very few are rich, and they are not getting paid by the church.
I also have had several good friends who were excommunicated from the Latter Day Saints, for sins like cohabitation with a member of the opposite sex, or being gay.

I would not describe Retiro or San Nicolas as "pretty depressed", myself.
The site is 3 blocks from Borges longtime home, there are many very expensive apartments very close by, and locals include movie stars, famous authors, university professors, millionaires, businessmen, and more.
There are still quite a few literal palaces in the neighborhood. The Kavanagh is one of the most desirable buildings in the city.
Lots of very good restaurants, some quite pricy. Large and expensive hotels.
It, like most urban areas of Buenos Aires, has a mix of people, incomes, and values, and everybody gets along.

I fail to see how a Mormon house of worship would add 'value".
A park- yes- Porteno use parks in gigantic numbers and can always use more outdoor space.
'

I believe the area is really Microcenter.
The tone of your comments about the Mormons was sarcastic and unkind but I will not comment further on your post.