Public transportation in the works

[Ries]

Cool. These are much smaller and different routes than the TramBus project in the originl post but still cool.
I'd hate to get stuck behind one though at 12 km/h.


My pet peeve is related to:
1) The interruption during construction. Installing new streets has been disasters in some places to local business for very extended periods of time. Much more than would be required to install overhead cables or just normal road replacement. This is then again repeated in the future. Maybe in some places they do it quicker and more organized. But in others it has devastated the local businesses in other places.

2) The huge cost for replacing the tracks in 40 years. The expense may not seem significant when evaluating the project because the cost is so far in the future that the time value of money makes it have a relatively small impact to project economics. But, it becomes a huge issue for the city when its time and they don't have the money.

3) LRT cannot change lanes. If there is an accident, or a unit stops working, or anything, it will just hold up the route until the obstruction is cleared or dealt with. The buses on the caternary cable can swerve around and carry-on. Again, might not happen frequently, and may be less of an issue depending on route such as airport corridor, but in a city it can be an issue.

4) The minor irritation is when there are major squeaks (? the sound when the wheels aren't rolling on the track perfectly, or when there is a slight curve).

I don't deny that its comfortable, etc. especially when new. But lets say you were going to run an LRT line in a corridor where it is only and no other traffic, ie. under high voltage power lines, how much cheaper and quicker would it be to do it with overhead cable buses that don't require the same sustaining capital overtime.

Depending on the route, if its a driverless system then it may very well be worth it also, such as Vancouver.

My issues with it are largely around implementations on congested city streets, and that this appears to be one such implementation.

you must be very young if you think many public works last longer than 40 years...
the majority of Light Rail projects I have worked on- Los Angeles, San Jose, Denver, and Seattle, - have the majority of the tracks in dedicated right of ways. Some have auto crossings, some do not. Phoenix has most of its length in the center of streets, in dedicated right of ways as well.
Entropy is a fact of life.
as they say- All Hardware fails Eventually. Auto pistas, or highways, bridges, tunnels, airports- all need repairs, most on much shorter time scales than 40 years. Replacing tracks is nothing compared to building new bridges- and in a nice rich modern country like the USA, over 220,000 bridges need to be repaired or replaced right now, at a current estimated cost of well over 300 billion dollars.
Replacing a few rails is a tiny drop in the bucket compared to that.
Highways, like Ruta 40, need complete repaving every 10 years or so. That costs more than replacing rails, and Argentina has a huge backlog of those to do- maybe we should just stop using roads?
All construction of anything, including catenary wires, blocks usage, and how long and how much really depends on so many variables.
inconvenience is the result of all urban construction.
Many major cities have been non-stop urban construction as long as I can remember.
Downtown Seattle peaked at 60 tower cranes a decade or so ago, there are over 20 there today- none are for light rail, but all block parking, thru traffic at times, have reduced lane widths, and a constant flow of delivery and cement trucks. And thats in an area about as big as the microcentro.
Trains, subways, catenary trolleys, and light rail are all restricted to their right of ways- none can "change lanes", except the new, extra expensive catenary trolleys that are ALSO full on electric buses, with batteries, and a shorter range than a normal electric bus.
Somehow, transportation systems in pretty much every major city and most countries have managed to function for two centuries withot the ability to change lanes. I am not too worried about this.
All vehicles make noise. Even teslas make goofy sounds. I ride colectivos all the time in BA, and they are way noisier than many light rail lines.

Although there are some major streets in BA that can accomodate the larger 60 ft/ 20 meter overhead catenary trolleys used in other cities, in reality, the smaller electric buses are much more suited to BA streets.
Again, the great advantage to small electric buses is they can go anywhere, and, with 400 individual bus routes in BA, there are a LOT of routes that go down streets that are narrow, full of parked cars, and have very tight corners. The idea of mega trolleys is silly for a 150 year old city built to 400 year old spanish measurements. 10 Varas, the unit lots are based on, add up to 8.66 meters wide, and, usually a multiple of that deep. Most streets are 20 varas, or approx 17 meters wide. Subtract the width of two parked cars, and that leaves what is theoretically a two way street.
Hence the ideal size of the new small electric buses.

 

[SlowWalker]

you must be very young if you think many public works last longer than 40 years...
the majority of Light Rail projects I have worked on- Los Angeles, San Jose, Denver, and Seattle, - have the majority of the tracks in dedicated right of ways. Some have auto crossings, some do not. Phoenix has most of its length in the center of streets, in dedicated right of ways as well.
Entropy is a fact of life.
as they say- All Hardware fails Eventually. Auto pistas, or highways, bridges, tunnels, airports- all need repairs, most on much shorter time scales than 40 years. Replacing tracks is nothing compared to building new bridges- and in a nice rich modern country like the USA, over 220,000 bridges need to be repaired or replaced right now, at a current estimated cost of well over 300 billion dollars.
Replacing a few rails is a tiny drop in the bucket compared to that.
Highways, like Ruta 40, need complete repaving every 10 years or so. That costs more than replacing rails, and Argentina has a huge backlog of those to do- maybe we should just stop using roads?
All construction of anything, including catenary wires, blocks usage, and how long and how much really depends on so many variables.
inconvenience is the result of all urban construction.
Many major cities have been non-stop urban construction as long as I can remember.
Downtown Seattle peaked at 60 tower cranes a decade or so ago, there are over 20 there today- none are for light rail, but all block parking, thru traffic at times, have reduced lane widths, and a constant flow of delivery and cement trucks. And thats in an area about as big as the microcentro.
Trains, subways, catenary trolleys, and light rail are all restricted to their right of ways- none can "change lanes", except the new, extra expensive catenary trolleys that are ALSO full on electric buses, with batteries, and a shorter range than a normal electric bus.
Somehow, transportation systems in pretty much every major city and most countries have managed to function for two centuries withot the ability to change lanes. I am not too worried about this.
All vehicles make noise. Even teslas make goofy sounds. I ride colectivos all the time in BA, and they are way noisier than many light rail lines.

Although there are some major streets in BA that can accomodate the larger 60 ft/ 20 meter overhead catenary trolleys used in other cities, in reality, the smaller electric buses are much more suited to BA streets.
Again, the great advantage to small electric buses is they can go anywhere, and, with 400 individual bus routes in BA, there are a LOT of routes that go down streets that are narrow, full of parked cars, and have very tight corners. The idea of mega trolleys is silly for a 150 year old city built to 400 year old spanish measurements. 10 Varas, the unit lots are based on, add up to 8.66 meters wide, and, usually a multiple of that deep. Most streets are 20 varas, or approx 17 meters wide. Subtract the width of two parked cars, and that leaves what is theoretically a two way street.
Hence the ideal size of the new small electric buses.

Once a system is installed, its there. maybe just a few routes but that's it, so whether they get stuck for a few hours or not won't change anything.
The decision for whatever reason ages ago was made when there was less traffic and road users. Now cities have largely over grown their road networks and congestion is worse and people's attitudes are worse. More blocking intersection on a red light, more delivery trucks double parking (didn't have that 30 years ago nearly as much).

I like the buses, both small and larger project.
Price is much lower than I thought now and quick implementation. Still a bit curious about the charging time or if they implement battery swap. Either way I would imagine that the system can allow for a rapid charge when the bus arrives at a terminal station and the driver has a bit of a break or lunch.

One thing I am still curious about, these buses are part of a trial by the city, but does the city actual run bus transport, or does it just contract it out to various operators? The cost for the buses I guess seems reasonable, 800k USD, but maybe the chargers seem a bit steep, if its around $1M each based on the pricing from one of those articles.

 

[Ries]

where are you getting the 800k usd figure from?
the article I linked to clearly stated 300 million pesos per electric bus. thats 212,000 dollars today. where are you getting the 800k usd? thats how much a overhead trolley costs the city of Seattle, delivered in the USA, when bought 40 at a time.
In Argentina, I have no doubt they would be significantly more, even if made in Brazil...