Rentista/Pensionado residency with German income

[mikeX]

Hi y'all!

I (German) am looking to move in together with my girlfriend (Argentine) around the end of this year. As we don't want to marry yet and I will likely be working as a freelancer

Hi, thanks for sharing your experience! I’m also German and currently looking into moving to Argentina, so your post caught my attention.

I’m currently looking into the Rentista or Pensionado route and am trying to use a German disability pension from a private insurance company in Germany (Berufsunfähigkeitsrente) as the source of income for the application.

If you don't mind me asking: what documents did you ultimately use to prove the required income for your Rentista application? In particular, did you use bank statements as evidence, or did you rely on another type of income documentation?

And do you remember how the foreign documents had to be authenticated — e.g. apostille/legalization, certified copies and/or sworn translations? I’d be especially interested in how this was handled in practice for German documents issued by private companies, rather than official government authorities.

Thanks a lot!

 

[Buenas Ondas]

Hi, thanks for sharing your experience! I’m also German and currently looking into moving to Argentina, so your post caught my attention.

I’m currently looking into the Rentista or Pensionado route and am trying to use a German disability pension from a private insurance company in Germany (Berufsunfähigkeitsrente) as the source of income for the application.

If you don't mind me asking: what documents did you ultimately use to prove the required income for your Rentista application? In particular, did you use bank statements as evidence, or did you rely on another type of income documentation?

And do you remember how the foreign documents had to be authenticated — e.g. apostille/legalization, certified copies and/or sworn translations? I’d be especially interested in how this was handled in practice for German documents issued by private companies, rather than official government authorities.

Thanks a lot!

I'm not German, but can throw a few pointers your way:

• Absolutely all documents generated in German/Germany need to be apostilled. Since Germany's part of the Hague convention, you don't need to do that through the embassy; but just get them apostilled there. Then, they'll need to be translated and legalized by certified Argentinian translated. I just did that once I was here.
• I would get as much of a paper trail about the source of your income as possible. Bank statements won't be enough evidence (though you'll want those apostilled too). They'll want documentation around 1.) the private insurance company 2.) the nature of your pension 3.) the fact that that money goes to you. What might also be helpful is to ask your insurance agent to write a letter stating the amount you amount you receive and under what agreement and get that apostilled. It doesn't matter whether those documents are from a public or private company--just that they show legality and are apostilled.

The whole deal is that you have to be able to prove the legality of your funds. So think through what kind of documentation you'd need to prove that--and get all of that apostilled. Then, later on, you'll need to get it translated (but that part's relatively inexpensive and easy).

 

[mikeX]

I'm not German, but can throw a few pointers your way:

• Absolutely all documents generated in German/Germany need to be apostilled. Since Germany's part of the Hague convention, you don't need to do that through the embassy; but just get them apostilled there. Then, they'll need to be translated and legalized by certified Argentinian translated. I just did that once I was here.
• I would get as much of a paper trail about the source of your income as possible. Bank statements won't be enough evidence (though you'll want those apostilled too). They'll want documentation around 1.) the private insurance company 2.) the nature of your pension 3.) the fact that that money goes to you. What might also be helpful is to ask your insurance agent to write a letter stating the amount you amount you receive and under what agreement and get that apostilled. It doesn't matter whether those documents are from a public or private company--just that they show legality and are apostilled.

The whole deal is that you have to be able to prove the legality of your funds. So think through what kind of documentation you'd need to prove that--and get all of that apostilled. Then, later on, you'll need to get it translated (but that part's relatively inexpensive and easy).

Thank you very much, that’s really helpful! There’s just one specific point I’m trying to understand.

I understand that if the pension/income document is issued by an official government authority, the process is more straightforward. My question is specifically about a document issued by a private company.

If the income document is issued by a private company, is the actual process:

1. Private insurance company issues/signs the document in Germany
2. German notary certifies the signature and that the person signing is authorized to represent the company
3. The notarial document gets a Hague Apostille in Germany
4. The apostilled document is translated and legalized in Argentina

Is that actually how you did it?

I’m asking because I’m trying to use a German private disability pension, and I would like to know that this chain is practically workable before I travel to Argentina.

 

[Alby]

The wording of the letter is important for the pensionista. They want to know it is a pension that lasts for life. My (state) provider has a generic letter for precisely these kinds of purposes, and it was almost perfect, except that it said the pensions it provides are "generally" payable for life. I had that letter apostilled, translated. But Migraciones rejected it because of that one word, "generally". I had to go back to my provider and get them to write a special, tailored letter on my behalf, removing the word "generally", and then have that again apostilled and translated. Migraciones accepted the new version as evidence that the pension would last as long as I will last, and the application proceeded successfully. That was just over three years ago. If the assessing officer is in a pedantic mood, the same might happen to others.

 

[lunar]

If the income document is issued by a private company, is the actual process:

1. Private insurance company issues/signs the document in Germany
2. German notary certifies the signature and that the person signing is authorized to represent the company

What a notary usually does is certify something along the lines of: “The person with this form of ID signed this document in front of me.” He certifies the act of signing, not the contents of the document. And he cannot notarize it after the fact if the document was not signed in front of him.

So ideally, the original document granting you the pension would have been signed in front of a notary. That document can then be apostilled directly.

If the original document was not signed in front of a notary, then you need to find a substitute. For example, a representative of the organization could write a letter stating that you receive a pension from them and will continue to do so indefinitely. He could sign the letter in front of a notary. Then you can apostille the letter.

That’s my understanding of how it works. I'm not a lawyer.

 

[Alby]

It all depends on what the agency that issues the apostille (generally, the foreign affairs-responsible department of government, or an agent it contracts the service out to) requires. So you will need to check there first.

In my case, for example, the foreign affairs department will apostille directly any document issued by a signatory that the department itself has registered on its databased set up for the purpose. As these signatories are normally only from other government agencies, the practical impact is that foreign affairs cannot apostille many documents directly. The solution is for the applicant to first have the document notarized by a public notary. Once a notary has legalized the document, the foreign affairs department then affixes the apostille. So, in those cases the second step is convincing the notary to notarize the document and do so with language that won't raise eyebrows at the foreign affairs department when it is time to do their part.

In my case (the document was a printout of a downloaded electronic document), the notary used the following (English, obviously) words: "...hereby certify and attest that the document hereto impressed with my seal was certified by <Alby> to be a printout of an electronic he had legally downloaded from the <website>". That was as far as he was prepared to go, but he did also undertake the due diligence of first ringing the signatory and reading out the contents of the letter to be sure I hadn't adulterated its contents. It was quite a tricky business, repeated every year. The foreign affairs department never questioned the result; I'm pretty sure they just saw the notary's seal, didn't bother with the details either of the document itself or the notary's characterisation, and just bunged the apostille on it.

The bottom line is this: what does the German agency that issues apostilles require of you as the applicant, and, in the event it requires a notary to intervene, what does that agency require of the notary, and how do you get the notary to produce the notarization in the first place and then in a form that way that will satisfy the agency?

 

[Buenas Ondas]

Thank you very much, that’s really helpful! There’s just one specific point I’m trying to understand.

I understand that if the pension/income document is issued by an official government authority, the process is more straightforward. My question is specifically about a document issued by a private company.

If the income document is issued by a private company, is the actual process:

1. Private insurance company issues/signs the document in Germany
2. German notary certifies the signature and that the person signing is authorized to represent the company
3. The notarial document gets a Hague Apostille in Germany
4. The apostilled document is translated and legalized in Argentina

Is that actually how you did it?

I’m asking because I’m trying to use a German private disability pension, and I would like to know that this chain is practically workable before I travel to Argentina.

Not sure about differences between what it takes to get a document apostilled in the States vs Germany. But here:

1. Private company issues a doc w/ signature (or sometimes without for stuff printed online or tax returns or whatever)
2. I get my signature notarized stating something to the effect that "I, [my name], swear the attached is a true and correct copy of my [Account Verification with Savings Balance and Income Confirmation Letter] from my CPA, [CPA name]." (basically swapping out stuff in brackets for actually details)
3. Get the notarized signature attached to original document apostilled
4. Get the apostilled document translated & legalized by certified Argentinian translator

I never had to get the other party's signature notarized in order to get the doc apostilled in the States--but not sure if that process is different in Germany

 

[foobar]

Hi y'all! Sorry for the late reply, I'm still in the middle of organizing all the required documents, preparing to move, etc etc so I can't give any definitive answers yet.

What I already found out is that I need a way to prove lawful origin of funds I have in my bank account. I'm in touch with a specialized lawyer for this at the moment to write me a "Mittelherkunftsnachweis" (fancy german word for a document that verifies lawful origin of your funds). Problem is it's very expensive (low four digit EUR amount for a piece of paper ...) but unfortunately everyone else I asked has declined so far :/

And do you remember how the foreign documents had to be authenticated — e.g. apostille/legalization, certified copies and/or sworn translations? I’d be especially interested in how this was handled in practice for German documents issued by private companies, rather than official government authorities.

As far as I know at this point, every document for use in Argentina needs to be apostilled in Germany and will then be translated by a licensed translator in Argentina before it is submitted.
In Germany there are multiple different places / offices in charge for apostilling, depending on the document you need to get apostilled. The BfAA has some information on this: https://bfaa.diplo.de/bfaa-de/service/apostillenundbeglaubigungen/apostille-2566120
They are in charge for apostilling documents issued by federal agencies, like the certificate of criminal records. (A word of warning on this one because you'll need it too: The BfJ currently needs 8-10 weeks to issue the certificate of criminal records that need to be prepared for an apostille (you need to select that when requesting the document!) and then you need to send it to the BfAA separately to get it apostilled. So plan some time for this. Of course the fancy new digital version of the document can't get apostilled ... )

For documents issued by anyone else than a government agency you need to get it notarized first, at least that's my current understanding. These then get apostilled by the regional court ("Landgericht") of the area where the notary is located.

Once you have collected, notarized (if necessary) and apostilled all of your documents, you bring them to Argentina and get them translated by a licensed translator. I'm not at this step yet though so I can't tell you the exact procedure just yet.

If I remember I'll give some updates along the way, otherwise feel free to ask me here or via PM. Best of success with your application!