SICKO what did you think?

I thought it was very depressing. I only have experience with health care in USA and here in Argentina. In the USA you not only have insurance but you have uncovered crap and can rack up debt with illness! In Argentina, it does not seem to be the case-the private care at least seems to work and its better. The care in the USA if you can afford it. The system is corrupt. It needs an overhauling but I am not optimistic it will happen anytime soon.
I think Fishface is right. There are issues in the US that need to be addressed but the solution is not to imitate the NHS or other highly costly and inefficient systems. As for education, the US has an excellent university system with many options for different needs. There is lots of scholarship money and low interest loans from states. If you are low income (a family with under $45,000 dollars a year) Harvard and other leading schools will give any qualified student a totally free education. I do not believe that Michael Moore tells the truth. I have no doubt that there are germs of truth in his film but if it is like his other films, it is distorted and exaggerated. Would you really like to be treated in Cuba? If so, go try it. You can have it.


Active Member
NJCaramelo, our family have insurance here and also in the US. Of course, the price is the most glaring difference. Please remember that as much as not everyone in the US can afford health care, so it is for other Argentinians here as well. There are more AFFORDABLE healthcare here than in the US, I give you that. But I have known of people (very close to family) that were denied healthcare coverage here - you would never imagine such a thing in the US. Not all of us can be born healthy - others have pre existing condition; and in the US it is against law to refuse healthcare coverage to anyone - you pay more- but you can never be denied health coverage. I know of people who have SIDA, diabetis, heart problems that have been trying to apply for very good health coverage. I have seen letters from companies boldy stating that because medicine needed for applicant is expensive..blah..blah...DENIED!
We have coverage here for emergency purposes only - but yearly physical check up requiring specialists especially mamograms, sonograms, OB GYN's are done in the US. It is just a level of comfort that everyone has differently and for this family, USA is where our family doctors are.
So there are pluses and minuses in any business ( healthcare is ) and as usual the consumers have to fend for themselves. People might say money is not everything but it sure can get you the best medical service money can buy when you need a very quick quadruple bypass.
I went to see it as well
Some observations:
Free healthcare does not exist, as well as free money does not exist
Taxes in the USA are about 10 to 15% lower then in most European countries. Let´s calculate what you would save over the span of your life
Comparing a Paris engineer and a sectretary to a bunch of trailer trash from the USA does not add up. A comparable family in the USA would probally make around 15.000USD a month instead of 8.000 euro. Those kind of people just don´t come into problems
Letting your parents, who helped you through college, live in a 100 square feed room does tell everything about what kind of people they are
I wonder why thousands of people a year want to risk there lives to cross from Cuba to the USA.
Paying a doctor 170.000 dollar(85k in British pounds) a year does not help to keep health care cost affordable and does send the opposite message that
A wonder why MM did not shoot his pictures in a Paris suburb or why he didn´t talk about the fact that the French state is bankrupt, unemployment is out of control, that college educated people can´t find a job or that all companies leave France because of high taxes and outragous employee-rights.
I don´t think there are 50 million Americans(pasport holders) who are uninsured
I for example would like to know what is spend per head on healthcare in lets say England, USA and France

The fact remains that if you have a state programm that will lead to corruption, bureaucracy and a market system could lead to some people who are left behind
The sollution is probally a mixed system, like the one the Dutch are trying to build and I think the Canadians as well
"WynnsWoods" said:
In this new report MGI finds that the United States spends approximately $480 billion ($1,600 per capita) more on health care than other OECD countries and that additional spending is not explained by a higher disease burden; the research shows that the U.S. population is not significantly sicker than the other countries studied.
This seems to be consistent with what I understand: that the US spends about 15% of its GDP on healthcare, whereas Western European countries (and I presume the rest of the OECD) spend about 10%. US healthcare is grossly inefficient -- more so than the "socialist" systems prevailing in Europe. Furthermore, the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US is medical costs.
Michael is a retarded jackass and representative of much of today's "Liberal Left" in the USA. He would be more persuasive if he stopped moralising, took into account counterarguments, and pointed out the flaws of European systems (they do have them). But the kind of distorted and exaggerated nonsense he peddles turns off thinking people -- even when he has a case (most of the time he doesn't as he's just portraying how goshawful the US system is).
It's difficult to suggest a panacea for the USA. For various reasons, the Americans aren't good at collective solutions -- they become excessively bureaucratised, and they're hijacked by various special interests.
Postscript: The Europeans pay more taxes but they get disproportionately more for what they do pay: healthcare, education, assistance with housing (if they need it), and long-term unemployment benefits. US taxes -- though lower -- often get siphoned off into things that don't improve the welfare of ordinary people (such as maintaining the military-industrial complex).
"WynnsWoods" said:
Engineers payscales average: $56,369 USD
Secretaries: $33,491 USD
This makes an annual combined income of $89,860 USD
making their monthly income $7,488.34 USD
a figure roughly half that which you quoted.
And what is the same average in France because it won´t be around 5000 euro nett and 2000 nett.
The guy is probally a good engineer because an average would probally make around 2500-3000 nett. And for his wife around 1500-2000 euro
If he earns way over the average in France he would be in the US as well
Most engineers can easily make 50% to 70% more in the US real terms then in Europe